Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07C693800010B; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:19:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UBrwY-0004Ml-M7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:18:02 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UBrwY-0004Mc-0G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:18:02 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UBrwV-0002ct-BN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:18:00 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.47.75]) by mwinf5d03 with ME id 6jHd1l00H1dKinW03jHewC; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 20:17:38 +0100 Message-ID: <681C2B31B626414F8D991320219EA3E5@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <165DFADF844B423F946979B86DCA56C7@AGB> <0CE08C640EDA48DD97E19B143502C364@AGB> <48FA9DB8022543919A9F05049D7C7CFE@AGB> <5131F2F3.9000909@psk31.plus.com> <8DB38417EF17436ABC682105C8682500@AGB> <5131FF90.2010309@psk31.plus.com> <12A567D59678436893BDFB292AB944C5@AGB> <51320B82.3060003@psk31.plus.com> <8E857785A29A421D9D2C8B40A1938090@AGB> <513239B9.6020400@psk31.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <513239B9.6020400@psk31.plus.com> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 19:17:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Yes that modulation schema seems to be prone to 'Gray noise' as are the envelope restoration liner's , -30/-35 dB s/n , its not 'psk'.. a sort of return to zero.. so is not as efficient and as you can see creeps a little outwards , phase-continuous , like wspr and other modes gives a better profile and lower s/n ... not sure as to why mfsk was not used , but at the time ros-mf was finished , if you change the modulator to mfsk , then that coding structure is very similar . JR using a hard lock at the start and a fly-wheel sync after that .... gives more dB's for data , but at the expense 'casual intercept' but once locked there is a afc routine that takes care of drift .. so may be a more practical system ? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 9eeaef25cbc091a07cc2ff31d4139552 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01CE177A.9A00DD80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc513250a62e95 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CE177A.9A00DD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes that modulation schema seems to be prone to 'Gray noise' as = are the envelope restoration liner's , -30/-35 dB s/n , its not = 'psk'.. a sort of return to zero.. so is not as efficient and as = you can see creeps a little outwards , phase-continuous , like wspr = and other modes gives a better profile and lower s/n ... not sure as = to why mfsk was not used , but at the time ros-mf was finished , = if you change the modulator to mfsk , then that coding structure = is very similar . JR using a hard lock at the start and a fly-wheel = sync after that .... gives more dB's for data , but at the = expense 'casual intercept' but once locked there is a afc = routine that takes care of drift .. so may be a more practical = system ? Not yet found how to set the beacon text in multi-psk , was going = to run it later , but at the moment ,. the best I can see is = de g0nbd k . not a lot of use for a comparative test=20 G.. From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 5:41 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? On 02/03/2013 15:48, Graham wrote:=20 That would make the nose b/w zero , bit of a 'gray' area that : = ) :-) . I didn't write the spec. this is the spectrum of the 200Hz B/W = version http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/CMSK/ITU125.gif Ed From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 2:24 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? You are missing a Zero G, -30dB Take a look here http://www.qsl.net/g6avk/ I will paint you some lines = at 475.210KHz Ed On 02/03/2013 13:39, Graham wrote:=20 Is that at the - 3dB points ? =20 From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 1:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? 12.5 Hz is WIDE.? Ed On 02/03/2013 13:28, Graham wrote:=20 Taking a walk on the wide side Ed ? G.. From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:39 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? What about CMSK8, currently testing on 475.210, its not crowded = there but may move up later to 478.100. Slightly Critical tuning takes operator skill should suit Mal. Ed On 01/03/2013 21:28, Graham wrote:=20 Stereo=20 Multi psk has 85 hz shift amtor - that was not there in = the good old days ?=20 that should work well ? G. From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? Hi Graham, LF, Just testing tonight for some serious RTTY QSO attempts over = weekend. Thanks for your report & Well Done over 2 paths. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:06 PM Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? Via Tween WEB SDR=20 AJCSV UYRYRY RYRSRYRY TESTING DE G4WGT G4WGT - T83QO -KENWOOD = TS-440S "RACAL LINEAR AMPLIFIER - UPM CAL ANLENET- 100OW ERP 8 = RTTYREPLIEE AND E-MAIL REPORTS ARE WELCOME DE G4WGT K AK From: Graham=20 Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 8:58 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ? 478.2 mid tones 75 shift 45.45 baud=20 &)--"GQU"?96 TESTING DE G4WGT G4WGT - IO83QO -KENWOOD TS-440S = " RACAL LINEAR AMPLIFIER - 12M VERTICAL ANTENNA - 100MW ERP - RTTY = REPLIES AND E-MAIL REPORTS ARE WELCOME DE G4WGT K=20 From: Graham=20 Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 8:50 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: rtty 478 ? rtty on 478 -- who ?=20 G. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CE177A.9A00DD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes that  modulation  schema seems to  be  = prone to=20 'Gray noise'  as  are the  envelope  = restoration =20 liner's  , -30/-35 dB s/n    , its not 'psk'.. = a sort=20 of return to  zero..   so is not  as  = efficient =20 and  as  you  can see  creeps a  little = outwards ,=20 phase-continuous , like wspr  and other modes gives  a = better =20 profile and  lower s/n ... not sure  as to  why  = mfsk =20 was not  used , but at the  time  ros-mf  was  = finished=20 , if you  change the  modulator  to  mfsk  , = then =20 that  coding  structure  is  very  similar . JR = using=20 a  hard lock at the  start and a fly-wheel sync after =20 that .... gives  more dB's  for  data  , = but  at=20 the  expense  'casual  intercept'    but  = once=20 locked there  is a  afc  routine  that  takes = care=20 of  drift .. so  may be  a more practical  system = ?
 
Not yet found how to  set the  beacon text  in=20 multi-psk  , was  going  to  run it  later , = but =20 at  the moment ,.  the  best  I can  see  = is =20 de g0nbd k . not  a lot of use  for a  = comparative  =20 test
 
G..

From: g3zjo
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 5:41 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?


On 02/03/2013 15:48, Graham wrote:=20
That would  make the  nose  b/w  zero , bit = of=20 a  'gray'  area  that : )
:-) . I didn't write the spec. = this is=20 the spectrum of the 200Hz B/W version http://www.qsl.net/zl1= bpu/CMSK/ITU125.gif

Ed

From: g3zjo
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?

You are missing a Zero G, -30dB

Take a look here = http://www.qsl.net/g6avk/ I will paint = you some=20 lines at 475.210KHz

Ed

On 02/03/2013 13:39, Graham = wrote:=20
Is  that  at the  - 3dB points ? 

From: g3zjo
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 1:33 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?

12.5 Hz is WIDE.?

Ed

On 02/03/2013 = 13:28,=20 Graham wrote:=20
Taking a  walk on the  wide  side  Ed = ?
 
G..
 

From: g3zjo
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?

What about CMSK8, currently testing on 475.210, its = not=20 crowded there but may move up later to 478.100.

Slightly = Critical=20 tuning takes operator skill should suit Mal.

Ed

On=20 01/03/2013 21:28, Graham wrote:=20
Stereo
 
Multi psk  has  85  hz  shift  = amtor =20 - that  was not  there  in the  good  = old =20 days  ?
 
that  should   work  well ?
 
G.
 

From: Gary -=20 G4WGT
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:22 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?

Hi Graham, LF,
 
Just testing tonight for some = serious RTTY=20 QSO attempts over weekend.
 
Thanks for your report & = Well Done over=20 2 paths.
 
73,
 
Gary - G4WGT.
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Graham
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
Sent: Friday, March 01, = 2013 9:06=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: rtty = 478 ?

Via Tween WEB SDR
 
AJCSV UYRYRY RYRSRYRY TESTING DE G4WGT G4WGT -  = T83QO=20 -KENWOOD TS-440S "RACAL LINEAR AMPLIFIER - UPM CAL ANLENET- = 100OW ERP=20 8 RTTYREPLIEE AND E-MAIL REPORTS ARE WELCOME DE=20 G4WGT    K AK
 
 

From: Graham
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 8:58 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
Subject: Re: LF: rtty 478 ?

478.2  mid  tones    75=20 shift   45.45  baud
 
 
&)--"GQU"?96 TESTING DE G4WGT G4WGT - IO83QO -KENWOOD = TS-440S=20 " RACAL LINEAR AMPLIFIER - 12M VERTICAL ANTENNA - 100MW ERP - = RTTY=20 REPLIES AND E-MAIL REPORTS ARE WELCOME DE = G4WGT    K=20

From: Graham
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 8:50 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
Subject: LF: rtty 478 ?

rtty  on 478 --  who ?
 
 
 
=
G.


=

------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CE177A.9A00DD80--