Message-ID: <CCFC81A9C1EA4A209CC9F5BF378E03A2@AGB>
From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <5116977F.50108@npton.plus.com> <51169844.60906@psk31.plus.com> <511699B8.4000208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <51169C65.2060800@psk31.plus.com> <5116A1E6.5040806@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <5116A6CF.3040609@psk31.plus.com> <17CDB7B27CCF4FFC8EBE21149BDE815D@PcMinto> <5116D582.9010004@psk31.plus.com> <D0D204B7880144B1BC4892133337ACB8@PcMinto> <5116E32F.7040505@psk31.plus.com> <7E4DF9667E4F42858785B7252AD1AD55@AGB> <51176F71.5050508@psk31.plus.com>
In-Reply-To: <51176F71.5050508@psk31.plus.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:49:00 -0000
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Subject: Re: LF: Opera and WSPR Test
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Remember that  well  , turned  out it   was the  wrong  kind  of  Opera , 
comic in those  days ,  and  now  is  Singspiel

: )

--------------------------------------------------
From: "g3zjo" <g3zjo@psk31.plus.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:59 AM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: LF: Opera and WSPR Test

> Hi G
>
> Yeh, ere, get off my thread.:-)
>
> On 10/02/2013 00:59, Graham wrote:
>> Ed..
>>
>> Longer TX periods gave more time for propagation or QRM to give zero
>> results,
>>
>> We have  times  of  2,4,8,16 , dropped  16  as that  was  ott  , most 
>> made TA  to  usa  with  2 , but 4  gave  another  -3 dB  ... 8 ? well 
>> may  be  , dose seem  to  work  over distance
>>
> It's my personal findings only, but on MF using low power, I remember my 
> tests with Albert and the step back in amazement, when OP4 was being 
> lauded as equivalent to WSPR2 due to the duty cycle difference. WSPR2 did 
> and OP4 didn't and took twice the time to let you know, give that to an 
> impatient git and which wins.?
>> WSPR does it better quicker.
>>
>> Is that  wspr  15  ?
> I haven't got round to coding WSPR 15 yet.
>
> 73 Eddie
>> G..
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "g3zjo" <g3zjo@psk31.plus.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:00 AM
>> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>> Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR Test
>>
>>> Hi Minto
>>>
>>> Transmit only, Opera is very simple, I think the PIC code of your 
>>> message is still available from the software GUI menu, the timing is 
>>> merely bits / message time. Yes I just sat and coded it without writng 
>>> down any protocol, its easier than WSPR.
>>> The main thing that annoys me with OPERA on MF is the long TX periods. 
>>> Longer TX periods gave more time for propagation or QRM to give zero 
>>> results, I feel WSPR does it better quicker.
>>>
>>> Same here on final builds but the present nest needs to be less quick 
>>> flash, bang, vapour resistant.:-)
>>>
>>> Eddie
>>>
>>> On 09/02/2013 23:37, Minto Witteveen wrote:
>>>> Hi Eddy,
>>>>
>>>> Where did you get the description of the OPERA protocol? And did you 
>>>> write the encoding yourself?
>>>>
>>>> I found a protocol description of Opera on Andy’s (G4JNT) website, but 
>>>> it is reverse-engineered, and I seem to remember him complaining about 
>>>> undocumented (and unannounced) protocol changes.. So I am not sure how 
>>>> up to date his description is.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that Opera is quite efficient, so I am still somewhat 
>>>> interested… but not in just simply generating Opera timings with an 
>>>> obfuscated and secret external program and then parsing this through my 
>>>> PIC/AD9850 TX. Where is the fun in that?
>>>>
>>>> As for  a final build.. there is no such thing here @pa3bca… As soon as 
>>>> it’s finished (i.e. I cannot think of additional things or software to 
>>>> add) it will probably start gathering dust somewhere. Or (more likely) 
>>>> I will attach a key(er) and use it for CW. Beaconing for beaconing’s 
>>>> sake is not for me.
>>>>
>>>> 73’s and please keep us posted on results.
>>>> Minto pa3bca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: g3zjo
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 00:02
>>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>>> Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR Test
>>>>
>>>> Hi Minto
>>>>
>>>> Nice one.
>>>>
>>>> There is a 4066 on my Modulator / Mixer board too,  unused here, I can
>>>> reconfigure and plug in the Key. I am not sure of any ultimate
>>>> configurations for a final build, it is still at the experimental 
>>>> stage.
>>>> I have a CW / OPERA QRSS Module too, I  have coded and tested OPERA it
>>>> is OK but I can't get to love it.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Eddie G3ZJO
>>>>
>>>> On 09/02/2013 22:22, Minto Witteveen wrote:
>>>>> I too have built a standalone 472 100 Watt TX with a PIC (and an 
>>>>> AD9850). The software I have written so far now handles CW, QRSS, DFCW 
>>>>> and WSPR-2 and WSPR-15  (thanks to Andy who wrote up a nice 
>>>>> description of the WSPR protocol).
>>>>> Even with a simple ‘air cooled’  10 MHz crystal  (40 MHz with 4x PLL) 
>>>>> running the PIC timekeeping is quite good, and it seems good enough to 
>>>>> have the PIC running for more than a day and still getting WSPR 
>>>>> decodes. If I run it from a 12.8 TXCO it will be even better.
>>>>> I now sync the TX (for WSPR) by getting the PIC out of reset exactly 
>>>>> on an even minute….
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure if I am going to implement Opera. There is too much 
>>>>> obscurity here for my liking. Apart from the difficulty of getting a 
>>>>> good and complete description of the protocol it’s the secrecy itself 
>>>>> that has no place in radio amateurism (at least that is how I think 
>>>>> about the issue).
>>>>>
>>>>> As for being a despicable  appliance operator: notice the 4066? Here I 
>>>>> can attach a key..
>>>>>
>>>>> The PIC board will disappear. Possibly I will add a PIC to the DDS 
>>>>> board (will have to reposition the 7805 for it to fit). Either that or 
>>>>> I will add a small board with the PIC and connectors for the LCD 
>>>>> display, the RS232 for a terminal and possibly a rotary encoder.
>>>>> Add a 24V 150 Watt Meanwell switching PSU and it’s a neat little 
>>>>> self-contained package.
>>>>>
>>>>> See attachments for a photo of the current setup and a quicly drawn 
>>>>> schematic
>>>>>
>>>>> 73's Minto pa3bca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: g3zjo
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 20:43
>>>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: WSPR Test
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I know it is always nice to see home brew, even from despicable
>>>>> appliance operators.:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Some recycling of some of my 500KHz rock bound modules.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eddie
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/02/2013 19:22, Stefan Schäfer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 09.02.2013 19:58, schrieb g3zjo:
>>>>>>> No time reference just very accurate PIC timing which is good for 
>>>>>>> weeks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah yes. BTW when using e.g. a netbook in /p WSPR tests it is totally
>>>>>> sufficient to sync the PC clock manually to your wrist watch (which
>>>>>> was synced at home), if necessary. So it is not really a pro-argument
>>>>>> for Opera that no timing is required. I've recently tested that at
>>>>>> home with my own transmissions...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PA, yes tiny by your standards, but it is the PA that has been
>>>>>>> growing recently.
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pictures please!
>>>>>>> Oh dear do you really like rats nests?
>>>>>> ...and dirty fingers, yes ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73, Stefan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eddie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>