Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC0A6380000B5; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:31:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1U7Cka-0007Yr-LB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:30:24 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1U7CkZ-0007Yi-On for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:30:23 +0000 Received: from smtpout2.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.42] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1U7CkX-0005nA-9R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:30:22 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.46.54]) by mwinf5d21 with ME id 1aVz1l00U1A8HVe03aVzN6; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:30:00 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <2282795.WEYH53gDWV@fbox.localdomain> <0739D17A209E4085947C84C3590A8B5F@F6CNIHP> <511FFC06.3090906@psk31.plus.com> ,<5120DE82.3010803@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FB72339@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <2097F57D130544A2A0E731393DBD8697@AGB> <51214A67.2010606@psk31.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <51214A67.2010606@psk31.plus.com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:29:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Well Ed, These things don't just happen , that 500 mtr wire did the job, just as the 750 feet to the lighthouse sorted the gb4fpr CW contact with vo1mrc on 502 , with 70 watts carrier power or Gary's OP8 to VE on 136 , using a 40 ft parasol in the back garden .. [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD BODY: HTML font face is not a word X-Scan-Signature: a8021042397a40331333862c25f1e78a Subject: Re: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0169_01CE0D5E.522582C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_FONT_BIG, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad451215a473d71 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01CE0D5E.522582C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well Ed,=20 These things don't just happen , that 500 mtr wire did the job, = just as the 750 feet to the lighthouse sorted the gb4fpr CW = contact with vo1mrc on 502 , with 70 watts carrier power or = Gary's OP8 to VE on 136 , using a 40 ft parasol in the back = garden .. >From the test we ran using OP16 , 16 mins was too long for = 500 , Im not 100% convinced OP8 is , but it has put in some good = distances , the question is how much of a 120 wspr tx is = needed to decode ? TA used to show only 1 or 3 syc points in = the report , indicating events where quite short ?=20 Ok only a short path , simultaneous 100% OP4 and OP8 , the = lower s/n is the longer format , not a big test , but would = point to a un equal qsb cycle ? 136 is a different story , = the longer qsb gives the opportunity to increase the tx time , = but unless the ' system' can accommodate the time in terms of = stability , then its a law of diminishing returns=20 22:10 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -14 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 22:10 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op8 139 mi -14 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 22:06 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -13 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 22:02 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -12 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 22:02 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op8 139 mi -13 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 21:58 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -12 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 21:54 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op8 139 mi -16 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 21:54 477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -14 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng = with 0.1w=20 G..=20 From: g3zjo=20 Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:23 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m Hi G Yes you were right. What I liked was decoding the 'trace in the sand', a = bit more than 'just' and it was WSPR2, holds the distance record over = WSPR15 on 630m. Slip one in quick when the going is good. 472KHz to the Far Flung Antipodes of Hobartly Tasmanial BAH! you are = all MW Dreamers. Stanley Unwinese as used by himself to a Policeman, as an excuse for = driving the wrong way down a one way street. Eddie On 17/02/2013 20:21, Graham wrote:=20 Any fool can repeat what others say , but a lesser one might = repeat the whole text =20 So , as I posted ,=20 ''Problem is you cannot up the time to down the s/n as you can = on 136=20 I have seen MW UK/VK dx using carrier detection just behind the = gray line , that would need a 100% carrier running for may be = 2 hours round that time , but the window is not too big , may be = , 15/ 30 mins ? =20 no chance for any qrss/data , just a trace in the sand ? '' Problem is you cannot up the time to down the s/n as you can = on 136 , >>> True ?=20 Its possible to observe signals from VK on MF >>.. Ture ? time window small >> ture ? Special set up long carrier (rx) ? >> ture ? Observed signal very low out side data >> true ? so what particular point is worth repeating concern ? =20 G.. From: Rik Strobbe=20 Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:54 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Dale Hughes=20 Subject: RE: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m Hi Stefan, in 1923 wrote Paul Godley (call 2ZE): The amateur is a fool: ignoring = that something is impossible, he makes it happen. Maybe little has changed since then ;-) 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T BTW i want to remember what was written here last tuesday: Am 12.02.2013 00:30, schrieb Graham:=20 [...] =20 no chance for any qrss/data , just a trace in the sand ? G.. Your results demonstrate once again that it is always worth to try = what seems to be impossible! :-) Am 17.02.2013 13:08, schrieb Andr=E9 Guy=E9:=20 What about the use of long period of TXing, as WSPR15 or QRSS ? For = this very long path, I think that the opening duration time is too short = for that use ? Well first it would be interesting to get some informatiuons about = Dale's TX system. And if normal WSPR-2 decoded, then QRSS-10 should be = possible as well.=20 WSPR-15 may take to long, the opening times are quite short, as you = say. But anyway, this opens a new field for experiments. Of course it is = worth to transmit during the time that path is open! And it is good that = the WSPR "dial" frequency in VK is different to ours, so we already have = splitted bands for RXing and TXing here in EU and VK. Now, as Dale said to me in a mail, one spot is not sufficient to = valid that. Why not? If you say that you didn't use a WEBSDR or other tricks, and = got a decode. Where should the information in the WSPR window come from, = if not trough the RF radiated in VK?=20 Again, my best congratulations to this impressing result!! 73, Stefan7DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01CE0D5E.522582C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well Ed,
 
These things  don't just  happen ,   that 500 = mtr =20 wire  did  the  job, just as the  750 feet  = to =20 the  lighthouse  sorted the  gb4fpr  CW contact = with =20 vo1mrc  on 502 , with   70 watts  carrier  = power=20  or Gary's   OP8   to  VE  on = 136  ,=20 using  a  40 ft parasol  in the  back garden = ..
 
From the  test  we  ran  using = OP16    ,=20 16  mins  was  too  long for  500 , Im = not  100%=20 convinced  OP8  is  , but it has  put in some  = good=20 distances , the  question  is  how much  of =20 a   120  wspr  tx  is  needed  = to =20 decode  ?  TA used to  show  only  1  = or =20 3  syc points  in the  report , indicating  = events =20 where  quite  short ?
 
Ok only a  short  path ,  simultaneous  =20 100%  OP4  and OP8  , the  lower  s/n is = the =20 longer  format , not  a  big  test , but =20 would   point to a  un equal   qsb   = cycle=20 ?    136 is a  different  story  , = the =20 longer  qsb gives  the  opportunity  to  = increase=20 the  tx  time , but unless  the  ' system'  = can =20 accommodate the  time  in terms  of  stability , = then its=20 a  law of  diminishing  returns
 
22:10    477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -14 dB in = Wootton=20 Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w
22:10    477 G0NBD de G4MDH = Op8 139=20 mi -14 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w =
22:06    477=20 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -13 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w=20
22:02    477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -12 dB in = Wootton=20 Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w
22:02    477 G0NBD de G4MDH = Op8 139=20 mi -13 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w =
21:58    477=20 G0NBD de G4MDH Op4 139 mi -12 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w=20
21:54    477 G0NBD de G4MDH Op8 139 mi -16 dB in = Wootton=20 Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w
21:54    477 G0NBD de G4MDH = Op4 139=20 mi -14 dB in Wootton Bassett, SW Eng with 0.1w
 
G..
 

From: g3zjo
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on=20 630m

Hi G

Yes you were right. What I liked was decoding = the=20 'trace in the sand', a bit more than 'just' and it was WSPR2, holds the = distance=20 record over WSPR15 on 630m. Slip one in quick when the going is = good.
472KHz=20 to the Far Flung Antipodes of Hobartly Tasmanial  BAH! you are = all  MW=20 Dreamers.

Stanley Unwinese as used by himself  to a = Policeman, as an=20 excuse for driving the wrong way down a one way=20 street.

Eddie


On 17/02/2013 20:21, Graham wrote:=20
Any fool  can repeat  what  = others =20 say  , but a lesser one  might  repeat the  = whole =20 text  
 
So  , as  I posted ,
 
''Problem is  you  cannot  up the  time  = to  down the  s/n as  you can  on 136
 
I have seen  MW  UK/VK  dx using  = carrier =20 detection  just  behind the  gray  line , = that =20 would  need  a  100%  carrier running  = for =20 may  be  2  hours  round  that  = time  , but=20 the  window is  not too  big , may be  , 15/ 30 = mins=20 ?  
no chance  for  any qrss/data   , just a = trace in=20 the  sand  ? ''
 
 
 
Problem is  you  cannot  up the  time  = to =20 down the  s/n as  you can  on 136 , >>> True ? =
Its possible to   observe  signals   = from =20 VK on MF   >>.. Ture ?
time  window  small   >> ture ?
Special  set up long carrier   (rx)  = ? >>=20  ture  ?
Observed signal  very low out side  data >>=20  true ?
 
so  what  particular point  is  worth=20    repeating concern ? 
 
 
G..
 
 
 

From: Rik=20 Strobbe
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:54 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Dale Hughes
Subject: RE: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on=20 630m

Hi Stefan,

 

in 1923 wrote Paul Godley (call 2ZE): The = amateur is=20 a fool: ignoring that something is=20 impossible, he makes it happen.

 

Maybe little=20 has changed since then ;-)

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T


BTW i want to remember what = was written here last=20 tuesday:
Am 12.02.2013 00:30, schrieb Graham:=20
[...] =20
no chance  for  any = qrss/data  =20 , just a trace in the  sand  ?
 
=
G..

Your results demonstrate on= ce again that it=20 is always worth to try what seems to be=20 impossible! :-)


Am 17.02.2013 13:08, schrieb Andr=E9 = Guy=E9:=20
What about=20 the use of long period of TXing, = as WSPR15 or QRSS=20 ? For this very long path, I think that the=20 opening duration time is too = short for that use=20 = ?

Well first it = would be interesting=20 = to get some informatiuons about Dale's TX=20 system. And if normal WSPR-2=20 decoded, then QRSS-10 should be possible as=20 well. 
WSPR-15 may take to long, the = opening times=20 are quite short, as you say. But anyway, this = opens=20 a new field for experiments. Of course it = is worth=20 to transmit during the time that path is open! = And it=20 is good that the WSPR "dial" frequency in VK = is=20 different to ours, so we already have splitted=20 bands for RXing and TXing here in EU and = VK.

 

Now,=20 as Dale said to me in a mail, one spot=20 is not sufficient to valid=20 that.

Why=20 not? If you say that you didn't use = a WEBSDR or other tricks, and got a=20 decode. Where should the information in=20 the WSPR window come from, if not trough = the RF radiated in VK?



Again, my=20 best congratulations to this impressing = result!!

73,=20 Stefan7DK7FC

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