Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C75D380000E9; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1U7Ctn-0007hb-CI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:39:55 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1U7Ctm-0007hS-FJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:39:54 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1U7Ctj-0005qJ-06 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:39:53 +0000 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id r1HMdTit028001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:39:29 +0100 Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.206]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id r1HMdTWL006162 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:39:29 +0100 Message-ID: <51215C1C.80906@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 23:39:24 +0100 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2282795.WEYH53gDWV@fbox.localdomain> <0739D17A209E4085947C84C3590A8B5F@F6CNIHP> <511FFC06.3090906@psk31.plus.com> <0537FE7E5A0C4521A4BC62EF690FA911@Black> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Dimitris, Thanks for the informations. Well, if 475.7 kHz is not a good choice due to QRM in VK, then "we" should discuss where to go. "We", that must be explained. I think that "we" are those active stations who either want to try to receive a station from VK or want to try to get a decode in VK. [...] Content analysis details: (-1.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [129.206.100.212 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.6 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b0559bd874945627185d783ffed47d11 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020309000106090906090401" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d551215c7519cc X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020309000106090906090401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id r1HMdTit028001 Hi Dimitris, Thanks for the informations. Well, if 475.7 kHz is not a good choice due to QRM in VK, then "we"=20 should discuss where to go. "We", that must be explained. I think that "we" are those active=20 stations who either want to try to receive a station from VK or want to=20 try to get a decode in VK. Of course i would like to join those active TX stations on MF and i like=20 to try if i can leave a trace or decode, not only in the sand :-) I=20 thought about running QRSS-10 near 476.170 kHz, as done in the last=20 months. This would allow me to run the TX during the complete possible=20 time, arround 15:30...18:00. Or, alternatively, i would like to run=20 WSPR-2 in 100% TX mode. That would at least require _splitted RX and TX=20 bands on both sides_, otherwise there will be complaints. There will be=20 complaints anyway, im afraid... So maybe it would be an idea to define a special slot just for this path=20 and time and active (RX and TX) stations so they can all run WSPR-2 in=20 100% mode. Of course there must be stations who are RXing exclusively=20 but there are only a few who will TX anyway. Any recommendations / ideas? Should we discuss in direct emails=20 including all those from VK who are not member of this group? I would start the MF experiment tomorrow. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 17.02.2013 23:17, schrieb Dimitrios Tsifakis: > Hi Markus, > > I have suggested to the local VK group to switch to radiated rather > than wasted (LOL) power :-) > > Staying on a different frequency slot may be at the end what we will > do. It seems that 475.700 kc is a "noisier" part of the spectrum, and > many listeners in VK have complained about that. I will go with the > flow, whatever the group decides, I will do. From the receiving > perspective, leaving the WSPR on 475.700 kc is tempting, given the > density of decent signals emanating from Europe. Especially now that > we have an indication that it is possible. This probably will make > more sense in our winter. > > 73, Dimitris VK1SV > > > > 2013/2/18 Markus Vester: > =20 >> Hi Dimitris, >> >> sorry for that. I noticed my error after I sent out the first mail, my= only >> excuse being that I was pretty much overwhelmed by the fantastic news. >> >> Yes I saw that wspr activity is on the upsurge in VK. Stefan and I dis= cussed >> this this afternoon, and one thought was that keeping split bands migh= t be a >> better idea. When several stations engage in two-way attempts in the s= ame >> subband, the receivers will be likely affected by overloading and >> noiseblanker desensitizing effects. So you might want too consider sta= ying >> with separate slots. >> >> There was some uncertainty whether Dale's 50 W tag was meant to be TX = power >> or ERP. Hereabouts we've sort of settled on stating ERP, simply becaus= e >> radiated power is the relevant quantity for SNR, whereas antenna >> efficiencies can vary vastly. >> >> Best 73, >> Markus (DF6NM) >> >> >> From: Dimitrios Tsifakis >> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:09 PM >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m >> >> G'day Markus, >> >> just a quick clarification - it wasn't me, it was Dale VK1DSH that >> transmitted the famous packet received in France. Since that incident, >> we changed our WSPR frequency to comply with the European one and we >> will be transmitting as often as we can in order to find out if this >> can be repeated! Dale is radiating similar amounts of RF to me, which >> I calculate to be around 0.5 W. >> >> 73, Dimitris >> >> >> >> 2013/2/17 Markus Vester: >> =20 >>> Wow, that's excellent! I wouldn't have thought this is possible. >>> Congratulations to both Andy and Dimitris! >>> >>> Best 73, >>> Markus >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Andr=E9 Guy=E9 >>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:08 PM >>> Subject: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m >>> >>> From F6CNI : >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello, I give you some info about the MF reception of Dale VK1DSH sig= nal >>> here in France. >>> >>> >>> >>> For 2 weeks, the propagation between EU / VK on 160 meters is great, = and I >>> had some CW QSO barefoot. I think that for this DX path the propagati= on on >>> MF may be similar than on 160 m ? >>> >>> >>> >>> At the date of this event, between the Dale and Andy QTH, the best mo= ment >>> is >>> a bit before the grey line sunset in France, when the sun elevation i= s >>> about >>> 3=B0. But on 160 meters that needs especially good propagation and th= e >>> opening >>> is rare and very short, 5 to 15 minutes only. This moment is now arou= nd >>> 1645 >>> TU in my QTH. A bit later, when the sunrise at VK land in grey line, = that >>> is >>> a second short period for success, around 1920 TU. That is true only = for >>> south to north hemisphere DX. >>> >>> >>> >>> For north / north path (EU to east coast or centre of States) the bes= t >>> moment is simply in the middle of the night. But perhaps for longer p= ath, >>> as >>> west coast the sunrise in Europe is better ? >>> >>> >>> >>> My garden is quite large but in centre of the city, a noisy location. >>> Antennas for LF / MF are an 85 meters long Inverted L and a K9AY. RX = are >>> IC7200, IC706MK2 and a FT1000MP. >>> >>> >>> >>> Only 3 miles away from my home, there is a golf. That is my second ho= bby. >>> Due to the very bad weather in France for one month, there is a very >>> little >>> player=92s activity. So a week ago I hang on border of the golf a sim= ple >>> beverage using a very light wire. About 500 or a bit more meters long >>> aiming >>> to 80=B0 azimuth. For the test yesterday I had in my car the IC7200 o= n 473.5 >>> USB and a portable computer (only 2 hours of autonomy) with 3G. I sta= y on >>> place only during 40 minutes. That is the story. I catch one spot fro= m >>> Dale. >>> >>> >>> >>> What that means ? The Beverage and not power line helps a lot giving = a >>> very >>> low noise level. The use of the 473.5 USB QRG is good, because there = is >>> not >>> any QRM on this frequency. And certainly a great propagation day, so = I was >>> lucky listening the good frequency at the best moment. What about the= use >>> of >>> long period of TXing, as WSPR15 or QRSS ? For this very long path, I = think >>> that the opening duration time is too short for that use ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Now, as Dale said to me in a mail, one spot is not sufficient to vali= d >>> that. >>> So, I=92ll try again but it is necessary for me to hurry, because the >>> beverage >>> antenna must be dismounted in a short time. >>> >>> >>> >>> For information, I use some codes when I am receiving LF, MF or 160m: >>> >>> >>> >>> F6CNI : normal, listening only WSPR2 >>> F6CNI/2 : I am listening both WSPR2 and WSPR15 (giving F6CNI/15 repor= ts >>> for >>> WSPR15) >>> F6CNI/RX1 and F6CNI/RX2 : I use 2 RX with 2 RX antennas >>> F6CNI/BEV : one RX is using the Beverage on the Golf location. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best 73. Sorry my poor english. >>> >>> >>> >>> F6CNI Andy. JN19QB >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Markus Vester >>> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:53 AM >>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>> Subject: Re: LF: WSPR 2 and WSPR 15 on 630m >>> >>> There's a thread in the VK 600m group discussing this unusual wspr sp= ot: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/600m/message/6415 >>> >>> Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: g3zjo >>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:37 PM >>> Subject: Re: LF: WSPR 2 and WSPR 15 on 630m >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> Was this direct? >>> >>> 2013-02-16 16:44 VK1DSH 0.475078 -29 0 QF= 44ms >>> 50 F6CNI/BEV JN19qb 16832 310 >>> >>> Eddie G3ZJO >>> >>> =20 >> =20 > =20 --------------020309000106090906090401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id r1HMdTit028001 Hi Dimitris,

Thanks for the informations.
Well, if 475.7 kHz is not a good choice due to QRM in VK, then "we" should discuss where to go.

"We", that must be explained. I think that "we" are those active stations who either want to try to receive a station from VK or want to try to get a decode in VK.

Of course i would like to join those active TX stations on MF and i like to try if i can leave a trace or decode, not only in the sand :-) I thought about running QRSS-10 near 476.170 kHz, as done in the last months. This would allow me to run the TX during the complete possible time, arround 15:30...18:00. Or, alternatively, i would like to run WSPR-2 in 100% TX mode. That would at least require splitted RX and TX bands on both sides, otherwise there will be complaints. There will be complaints anyway, im afraid...

So maybe it would be an idea to define a special slot just for this path and time and active (RX and TX) stations so they can all run WSPR-2 in 100% mode. Of course there must be stations who are RXing exclusively but there are only a few who will TX anyway.

Any recommendations / ideas? Should we discuss in direct emails including all those from VK who are not member of this group?

I would start the MF experiment tomorrow.

73, Stefan/DK7FC



Am 17.02.2013 23:17, schrieb Dimitrios Tsifakis: 
Hi Markus,

I have suggested to the local VK group to switch to radiated rather
than wasted (LOL) power :-)

Staying on a different frequency slot may be at the end what we will
do. It seems that 475.700 kc is a "noisier" part of the spectrum, and
many listeners in VK have complained about that. I will go with the
flow, whatever the group decides, I will do. From the receiving
perspective, leaving the WSPR on 475.700 kc is tempting, given the
density of decent signals emanating from Europe. Especially now that
we have an indication that it is possible. This probably will make
more sense in our winter.

73, Dimitris VK1SV



2013/2/18 Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>:
  
Hi Dimitris,

sorry for that. I noticed my error after I sent out the first mail, my on=
ly
excuse being that I was pretty much overwhelmed by the fantastic news.

Yes I saw that wspr activity is on the upsurge in VK. Stefan and I discus=
sed
this this afternoon, and one thought was that keeping split bands might b=
e a
better idea. When several stations engage in two-way attempts in the same
subband, the receivers will be likely affected by overloading and
noiseblanker desensitizing effects. So you might want too consider stayin=
g
with separate slots.

There was some uncertainty whether Dale's 50 W tag was meant to be TX pow=
er
or ERP. Hereabouts we've sort of settled on stating ERP, simply because
radiated power is the relevant quantity for SNR, whereas antenna
efficiencies can vary vastly.

Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)


From: Dimitrios Tsifakis
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:09 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m

G'day Markus,

just a quick clarification - it wasn't me, it was Dale VK1DSH that
transmitted the famous packet received in France. Since that incident,
we changed our WSPR frequency to comply with the European one and we
will be transmitting as often as we can in order to find out if this
can be repeated! Dale is radiating similar amounts of RF to me, which
I calculate to be around 0.5 W.

73, Dimitris



2013/2/17 Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>:
    
Wow, that's excellent! I wouldn't have thought this =
is possible.
Congratulations to both Andy and Dimitris!

Best 73,
Markus



----- Original Message -----
From: Andr=E9 Guy=E9
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 1:08 PM
Subject: LF: VK1DSH reception in France WSPR 2 on 630m

>From F6CNI :



Hello, I give you some info about the MF reception of Dale VK1DSH signal
here in France.



For 2 weeks, the propagation between EU / VK on 160 meters is great, and =
I
had some CW QSO barefoot. I think that for this DX path the propagation o=
n
MF may be similar than on 160 m ?



At the date of this event, between the Dale and Andy QTH, the best moment
is
a bit before the grey line sunset in France, when the sun elevation is
about
3=B0. But on 160 meters that needs especially good propagation and the
opening
is rare and very short, 5 to 15 minutes only. This moment is now around
1645
TU in my QTH. A bit later, when the sunrise at VK land in grey line, that
is
a second short period for success, around 1920 TU. That is true only for
south to north hemisphere DX.



For north / north path (EU to east coast or centre of States) the best
moment is simply in the middle of the night. But perhaps for longer path,
as
west coast the sunrise in Europe is better ?



My garden is quite large but in centre of the city, a noisy location.
Antennas for LF / MF are an 85 meters long Inverted L and a K9AY. RX are
IC7200, IC706MK2 and a FT1000MP.



Only 3 miles away from my home, there is a golf. That is my second hobby.
Due to the very bad weather in France for one month, there is a very
little
player=92s activity. So a week ago I hang on border of the golf a simple
beverage using a very light wire. About 500 or a bit more meters long
aiming
to 80=B0 azimuth. For the test yesterday I had in my car the IC7200 on 47=
3.5
USB and a portable computer (only 2 hours of autonomy) with 3G. I stay on
place only during 40 minutes. That is the story. I catch one spot from
Dale.



What that means ? The Beverage and not power line helps a lot giving a
very
low noise level. The use of the 473.5 USB QRG is good, because there is
not
any QRM on this frequency. And certainly a great propagation day, so I wa=
s
lucky listening the good frequency at the best moment. What about the use
of
long period of TXing, as WSPR15 or QRSS ? For this very long path, I thin=
k
that the opening duration time is too short for that use ?



Now, as Dale said to me in a mail, one spot is not sufficient to valid
that.
So, I=92ll try again but it is necessary for me to hurry, because the
beverage
antenna must be dismounted in a short time.



For information, I use some codes when I am receiving LF, MF or 160m:



F6CNI : normal, listening only WSPR2
F6CNI/2 : I am listening both WSPR2 and WSPR15 (giving F6CNI/15 reports
for
WSPR15)
F6CNI/RX1 and F6CNI/RX2 : I use 2 RX with 2 RX antennas
F6CNI/BEV : one RX is using the Beverage on the Golf location.



Best 73. Sorry my poor english.



F6CNI Andy. JN19QB




From: Markus Vester
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:53 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: WSPR 2 and WSPR 15 on 630m

There's a thread in the VK 600m group discussing this unusual wspr spot:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/600m/message/6415

Best 73, Markus (DF6NM)

----- Original Message -----
From: g3zjo
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: LF: WSPR 2 and WSPR 15 on 630m

Andy

Was this direct?

  2013-02-16 16:44      VK1DSH      0.475078      -29      0      QF44ms
50      F6CNI/BEV      JN19qb      16832     310

Eddie G3ZJO
--------------020309000106090906090401--