Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 43C9A380000EB; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:28:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TsHPh-0002wF-Sy for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:27:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TsHPh-0002w6-9O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:27:09 +0000 Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TsHPe-0006I2-8P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:27:08 +0000 Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id t2so13057299qcq.28 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 10:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2Bm8+73m9uQrK5eB7ZatxDLTA8GvdOTr0+aGTdx+cRI=; b=nJAerH2zHuas3CDD/a5lbxgy3TnWlVPB7HHYvYpR59fCL4Dy+HP4yb5mlxRMEpDKbN H9xo4MLlwoVtxw9gnSxAUoSVilMnJMKyInbd/L80SiGiPKE9L24Iz+zi7oYvGRAdp62S nKRNrQ2aR3rmY89Q4hPBfvZiLPXxipSTmqS/A/CWdEo5OwYJrvsJlO5KfMw+K0AFxRCM esTd8T8lldAMPB3JLCBdnfWEfhpODnM089Sf2yeEv4Qpf72AnAG/yF1MvxLwBtJ2WFqB Biwv5ElbZrtht2bDam3ZWyci8UlEjMhDmkI2vMZhXJK0DN5o8YypzOUxLCgnr4Nc1tq4 DwHw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.179.67 with SMTP id bp3mr36182865qab.7.1357583204296; Mon, 07 Jan 2013 10:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.156.18 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:26:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <31988B36-3C6B-4F26-9850-CECFE6A7FCD6@gmail.com> References: <52591013-FAE4-489B-8137-61A91BF26751@gmail.com> <50EB04F2.30940.3F2613@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <31988B36-3C6B-4F26-9850-CECFE6A7FCD6@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 18:26:44 +0000 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: "mike.dennison@ntlworld.com" , "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" , rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: As icing on the cake of this evening's experiment with earth electrodes, DJ8WX has just been copied on the 15m earth electrode "non antenna". Everything (PC, transverter and FT817 and SignaLink interface) was on battery supply and there is absolutely no connection to the mains earth or to copper pipes in the home. The vertical antenna is not resonant and is disconnected, so no mutual coupling likely. The last few reports (1754 until I went QRT just after 1800) were on the "all battery, 2 earth rods separated by 15m" set-up. Best report was from G0KTN at 210km, but I am pretty confident that much further is possible. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.216.169 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rogerlapthorn[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 860e51ceecdf98b32e8eba101d9d472d Subject: LF: Re: More earth electrodes tests at 472kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30334419a5282d04d2b6f857 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c50eb13ea342a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --20cf30334419a5282d04d2b6f857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 As icing on the cake of this evening's experiment with earth electrodes, DJ8WX has just been copied on the 15m earth electrode "non antenna". Everything (PC, transverter and FT817 and SignaLink interface) was on battery supply and there is absolutely no connection to the mains earth or to copper pipes in the home. The vertical antenna is not resonant and is disconnected, so no mutual coupling likely. The last few reports (1754 until I went QRT just after 1800) were on the "all battery, 2 earth rods separated by 15m" set-up. Best report was from G0KTN at 210km, but I am pretty confident that much further is possible. So, if anyone thinks they cannot erect a "proper" antenna for 472kHz I urge them to consider this idea. Clearly it will be many dB down on a proper large Marconi, but heck this is SO simple and the results are pretty decent for a 10W transverter output. I shall resume 472kHz testing with the 2 earth rods set-up at bed-time - struggling to get enough internet signal to allow the PC to time sync in the rear downstairs study where currently set-up without all the internal doors being wide open, HI. I'll then leaving it running overnight. Although the most likely explanation is "loop in the ground" H-field antenna I still don't quite accept this as the only mechanism. To get the results I do suggest the effective "loop in the ground" must be very large to receive the decent reports I do when compared with the Marconi, whose ERP I can reasonably well calculate. With wet, saturated soil, I find this "large loop in the ground" not really credible. Is there any way this can also be considered an E-field TX antenna? 73s Roger G3XBM On 7 January 2013 17:33, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Yes I am Mike. > > 15m baseline between 2 earth stakes and a 12V battery. It does amaze me > too. > > QRT on 472kHz now until late this evening. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM. > > On 7 Jan 2013, at 17:25, "Mike Dennison" > wrote: > > > Roger, > > > > If you are still using your earth antenna (1720UTC), your WSPR is an > > impressive -12dB S/N. > > > > de Mike,GXDV > > > >> Since 1608gmt I have been WSPRing with an even shorter earth electrode > >> "antenna" ( baseline about 15m) with BOTH ends connected to ground > >> rods in the soil. Max connecting wire height still 1.5m. Yesterday I > >> used the house pipes as one ground. > >> > >> Initial tests suggest reports are almost identical, suggesting the > >> true " loop in the ground" hypothesis rather than propagation aided in > >> any way by pipes. This is NOT the case at VLF. > >> > >> Most fascinating that this tiny "non antenna" works at all. > >> > >> 73s > >> Roger G3XBM > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ http://qss2.blogspot.com/ --20cf30334419a5282d04d2b6f857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As icing on the cake of this evening's = experiment with earth electrodes, DJ8WX has just been copied on the 15m ear= th electrode "non antenna". Everything (PC, transverter and FT817= and SignaLink interface) was on battery supply and there is absolutely no = connection to the mains earth or to copper pipes in the home. The vertical = antenna is not resonant and is disconnected, so no mutual coupling likely. = The last few reports (1754 until I went QRT just after 1800) were on the &q= uot;all battery, 2 earth rods separated by 15m" set-up. Best report wa= s from G0KTN at 210km, but I am pretty confident that much further is possi= ble.

So, if anyone thinks they cannot erect a "proper" anten= na for 472kHz I urge them to consider this idea. Clearly it will be many dB= down on a proper large Marconi, but heck this is SO simple and the results= are pretty decent for a 10W transverter output.

I shall resume 472kHz testing with the 2 earth rods set-up a= t bed-time - struggling to get enough internet signal to allow the PC to ti= me sync in the rear downstairs study where currently set-up without all the= internal doors being wide open, HI. I'll then leaving it running overn= ight.

Although the most likely explanation is "loop in the gr= ound" H-field antenna I still don't quite accept this as the only = mechanism. To get the results I do suggest the effective "loop in the = ground" must be very large to receive the decent reports I do when com= pared with the Marconi, whose ERP I can reasonably well calculate. With wet= , saturated soil, I find this "large loop in the ground" not real= ly credible.=A0 Is there any way this can also be considered an E-field TX = antenna?

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 7 January 2013 17:33, Roger La= pthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes I am Mike.

15m baseline between 2 earth stakes and a 12V battery. It does amaze me too= .

QRT on 472kHz now until late this evening.

73s
Roger G3XBM.

On 7 Jan 2013, at 17:25, "Mike Dennison" <mike.dennison@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Roger,
>
> If you are still using your earth antenna (1720UTC), your WSPR is an > impressive -12dB S/N.
>
> de Mike,GXDV
>
>> Since 1608gmt I have been WSPRing with an even shorter earth elect= rode
>> "antenna" ( baseline about 15m) with BOTH ends connected= to ground
>> rods in the soil. Max connecting wire height still 1.5m. Yesterday= I
>> used the house pipes as one ground.
>>
>> Initial tests suggest reports are almost identical, suggesting the=
>> true " loop in the ground" hypothesis rather than propag= ation aided in
>> any way by pipes. This is NOT the case at VLF.
>>
>> Most fascinating that this tiny "non antenna" works at a= ll.
>>
>> 73s
>> Roger G3XBM
>
>



--
=A0http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
<= a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9k= hz/
http://qss2.blogspot.com/

--20cf30334419a5282d04d2b6f857--