Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mp05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7020F380000A7; Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TruPc-0001NN-JY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:53:32 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TruPc-0001NE-1e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:53:32 +0000 Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com ([209.85.216.182]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TruPY-0002AT-9N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 17:53:30 +0000 Received: by mail-qc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k19so11172859qcs.13 for ; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=kx/2S52OFpdPLIlW1fD0O+JxBE6+GnoZ/HS2cLRq5F0=; b=FCn0OimPx17Kclm07iSo9l/keBaRBLoLUL5dWQ2XbRYULyTbtM275QmLtTtuJ2x9+i RqfzhSjeimZVfuvxDhYSn+iAQaO9SjQwWS/8SroWheUcSClz86q8agVL5NMhmthKRCQ0 J9r+g9YA1SjiH8oUg3+u9aBvjTGhsgjqB+FpDeaFbxLE/vcrrzM4LEcXCY2E5bj3Xr3A 7RYE19/XBHNO4RI0YyBT7xaWbrQTCNTT8vqhJGzJdvD+vV0nkX1woIr+le4MtoLhkyDH PABqNdddJKbiyGPLUOlVpTJlzf5gq/sMEBNHyVNfkFbl5DVHwXzh+aSPsHGnY2f2X12M e8Yg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.179.67 with SMTP id bp3mr32713296qab.7.1357494786214; Sun, 06 Jan 2013 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.156.18 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Jan 2013 09:53:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6BB1547C1F2041AC9F53361E123A7233@AGB> References: <6BB1547C1F2041AC9F53361E123A7233@AGB> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 17:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Well this is just about the only explanation that will make any sense Graham. If so, I would expect some directivity and when I analyse the results after an overnight run we'll see if stations off the side of the "loop" are statistically weaker (compared with the Marconi vertical) than stations in the line of the "loop". If so, this would tend to support loop like operation. The DL-SWL and PA reports are roughly in the plane of the wire, but there are plenty of reports from other directions too. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.216.182 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rogerlapthorn[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 54f9a9b24d9d5f31a632377c3b90b222 Subject: Re: LF: 472kHz TX without an antenna: it gets better (701km with around 5mW ERP) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30334419844c5504d2a26240 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-mp05.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1dc14950e9ba5a6e00 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --20cf30334419844c5504d2a26240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well this is just about the only explanation that will make any sense Graham. If so, I would expect some directivity and when I analyse the results after an overnight run we'll see if stations off the side of the "loop" are statistically weaker (compared with the Marconi vertical) than stations in the line of the "loop". If so, this would tend to support loop like operation. The DL-SWL and PA reports are roughly in the plane of the wire, but there are plenty of reports from other directions too. Of course, here in the UK we have highly saturated ground - I have NEVER known East Anglia to be so waterlogged - so the effective loop area cannot be that great. Anyone care to offer other suggested modes for this "non antenna"? 73s Roger G3XBM On 6 January 2013 17:42, Graham wrote: > ** > R, > > I thought it was established that the ground did not 'exist' > for some 20/40 feet or more from the surface and as such, your > using a loop with the bottom wire 40 feet lower than the top wire > ? > > This was the principal of ground lying Ae .would not work on > salt marshes , but for normal ground , lossey but capable of > supporting radiation ? > > G.. > > *From:* Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:28 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk > *Subject:* LF: 472kHz TX without an antenna: it gets better (701km with > around 5mW ERP) > > OK, now I am *totally* amazed.... > > Just got a WSPR spot from DL-SWL in Germany (JO52hp) at 701km using just > the earth electrode system on TX. Please someone, explain why this works as > well as it does, especially considering my ERP must be around 5mW at best. > > Incidentally G3XIZ is a colossal +7dB S/N on WSPR and I think Chris would > be easily workable on CW using the earth electrode system. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > -- > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ > http://qss2.blogspot.com/ > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ http://qss2.blogspot.com/ --20cf30334419844c5504d2a26240 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well this is just about the only expla= nation that will make any sense Graham.

If so, I would expect some = directivity and when I analyse the results after an overnight run we'll= see if stations off the side of the "loop" are statistically wea= ker (compared with the Marconi vertical) than stations in the line of the &= quot;loop". If so, this would tend to support loop like operation. The= DL-SWL and PA reports are roughly in the plane of the wire, but there are = plenty of reports from other directions too.

Of course, here in the UK we have highly saturated ground - I hav= e NEVER known East Anglia to be so waterlogged - so the effective loop area= cannot be that great.

Anyone care to offer other suggested mo= des for this "non antenna"?

73s
Roger G3XBM



=


On 6 January 2013 17:42, Graham &l= t;g8fzk@g8fzk.= fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
R,
=A0
I thought=A0 it=A0 was=A0 established=A0 that=A0 the=A0=20 ground=A0 did=A0 not=A0 'exist'=A0 for=A0 some=A0 20/40=A0=20 feet=A0 or more from the=A0 surface=A0 and=A0 as=A0 such,=20 your=A0 using a=A0 loop=A0 with the=A0 bottom=A0 wire=A0=A0=20 40=A0 feet=A0 lower than the=A0 top=A0 wire ?
=A0
This was the=A0 principal=A0 of=A0 ground lying=A0=A0=20 Ae=A0 .would=A0 not=A0 work=A0 on=A0 salt marshes=A0 ,=20 but=A0 for=A0 normal=A0 ground , lossey but=A0 capable=A0=20 of=A0 supporting=A0 radiation ?
=A0
G..



--
=A0http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
http://qss2.blogspot.com/

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