Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 95519380000FF; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TqkQd-0000DN-1J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:01:47 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TqkQc-0000DC-94 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:01:46 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TqkQX-00035g-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:01:45 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.14.171]) by mwinf5d05 with ME id jR1H1k00G3hSEUJ03R1HSN; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 14:01:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <0A4D88A68FCB4F22A2BC40825788A6AA@AGB> <1357150913.48886.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <63C5AFAA6F8C41A7936F2069D38FAC01@AGB> <81FED2F455C94E45B3BE41353A6D53BC@W1KW> <52B2628757094925BA8206A2C0D9640B@AGB> <1357173044.69099.YahooMailNeo@web133203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1357173044.69099.YahooMailNeo@web133203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:01:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Yes that was Gus , I had a cross band qso with him , however , from memory he was out side the 501-504 allocation I was surprised at the coverage in daylight , its unclear as to how many stations could actually transmit SSB in the first place , most of the amplification is based round class e/d , which unless you add the envelope restoration process are unsuitable , [ unless of course AM is considered , which may be ok for cross town , but boarding on the anti-social , as the carrier would need to be mid band] [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: a2bcfa97ac72b4287723b26fb0320e99 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01CDE9B2.6ACF8D90" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c50e581a07b08 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01CDE9B2.6ACF8D90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes that was Gus , I had a cross band qso with him , however , = from memory he was out side the 501-504 allocation=20 I was surprised at the coverage in daylight , its unclear as to = how many stations could actually transmit SSB in the first = place , most of the amplification is based round class e/d , = which unless you add the envelope restoration process are = unsuitable , [ unless of course AM is considered , which may be = ok for cross town , but boarding on the anti-social , as the = carrier would need to be mid band]=20 One underlying problem is we are not alone and cannot actually = define wide slots without overlapping one of the existing beacons = ! G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:30 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi Graham Geri and all Warren has seen SSB first hand on the MF QRG and we have this side = also.There was an SM station (call sign forgotten?) in the early days of = 500 that added an SSB anouncement on his beacon and it worked well. To my spec. :- "One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used = during daylight hours no DXing!" add " Use VOX, no monologuing allowed" = to be a laissez faire operation no band plan, but fair play!.73 es GL es = HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 20:48 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Geri 800 Hz B/W ... May be this is something 'Wolf' can code for = you ? a b/w compression / expansion module in SL , to limit the = tx b/w to 800 Hz must be possible to divide by 3 and mult by = 3 with a linear shift as well ? G.. From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW - DI2BO - W1KW=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi, I kind of like the idea of an SSB channel. I just pulled out the = conditions of my first secial license for 160m from 1973 or 1974. That = said 1815 to 1835 kHz with 10 Watts in CW, additionally one SSB channel = for 1832 to 1835 kHz, so why not trying this on 630m, too? Here in = Germany we are currently limited to 800 Hz bandwidt but I am sure we can = sork towards a special license under certain conditions such as daylight = operation only .. sounds good to me! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi Pete Its quite obvious that the allocation is quite able to = support normal armature activity , and why not ? its no longer a = experimental allocation , its just the same as 10 or top band , = un expected results today though ! ssb sounds odd , may be as = the path is stable , sstv ? must be a narrow mode , and the = 'new' digital voice is 2KHz , but that requires a linear Tx = path =20 As for the band edge=20 I'm straining to find a engineering reason , that wspr = and qrss has decided to run mid band ? Im sure users had a = reasonable discussion at the introduction of the band , to place = the modes at the edges , with live cw a the lower portion ? its = well know that these long carrier modes cause disruption to = other band users and are well placed at the band edges , = 'vanity beacons' is a term I have seen noted in referral, as = occupancy increases , by users not linked or even aware of = discussions taking place on these groups , i'm sure there will be = problems leading to the introduction of band plan's , for some = the plans form part of the licence conditions .. Is Opera a vanity system ? , actually no, it compliments ros- = data mode in that the ave s/n readings can be used to determine = if a path will support the data mode , each having the same = averaging s/n reading taken along the time line ,=20 73 -G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Hi all One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used during = daylight hours no DXing! 73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 16:13 Subject: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ? Quite intriguing propagation on this 'new' band=20 From some unexpected early 600 mile + Opera decodes last = night , to several wspr TA decodes , [G8's again ..] to = today's test with Gary using USB-SSB voice ,=20 Where as at 1300z we had 5/9 signals each way as = expected over 25 miles , GI3PDN Ray , called on CW , to give = a report of 5/9 across the Irish Sea , some 100 miles for our = two signals , his CW also in the 5/9/9 region, one wonders how = far inland the signals travelled ? After a short 3 way qso, we closed the test round 1330z , = may not of been quite as sociable after dark , but with a small = Ae , 40 x 70 ft iv L and 35 ft Top load vert , 50 watts pep = , results defiantly superior to say 160 mtrs using the same = Ae's=20 73 -G G0NBD ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01CDE9B2.6ACF8D90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes that was  Gus ,  I had a  cross  band  = qso  with  him , however , from  memory he was out  = side=20 the  501-504   allocation
 
I was  surprised  at the  coverage  in daylight = ,=20 its  unclear  as to  how  many  stations =20 could  actually   transmit  SSB  in the =20 first  place  , most of the  amplification is  = based =20 round  class  e/d   , which  unless   = you  add  the  envelope  restoration  = process =20 are  unsuitable  , [ unless of  course  AM is =20 considered , which  may  be  ok  for   = cross =20 town  , but  boarding  on the  anti-social  , = as=20 the  carrier  would need to be  mid band]
 
One  underlying  problem is  we  are not  = alone=20 and  cannot   actually define wide  slots =  =20 without overlapping  one of the  existing   beacons =  =20 !
 
G..

From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:30 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band = ?

Hi Graham Geri and all
 
Warren has seen SSB first hand on the MF QRG and we have this = side=20 also.There was an SM station (call sign forgotten?) in the early days of = 500 that added an SSB anouncement on his beacon and it worked=20 well.
 
To my spec. :- "One SSB channel at the high edge of = the band=20 only used during daylight hours no DXing!" add " Use VOX, no monologuing = allowed" to be a laissez faire operation no band plan, but fair=20 play!.73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, 2 = January=20 2013, 20:48
Subject: Re: LF:=20 477 A local SSB chat band ?

Geri
 
800 Hz  B/W ...  May  be this  is =20 something  'Wolf' can  code  for  you  ? = a  b/w=20   compression / expansion  module in SL  , to  = limit=20 the  tx b/w  to  800  Hz must  be  = possible=20 to  divide  by  3  and  mult  by  = 3 =20 with a  linear shift  as  well ?
 
G..

From: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW - DI2BO - = W1KW
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:36 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band = ?

Hi,
 
I kind of like the idea of an SSB = channel. I just=20 pulled out the conditions of my first secial license for 160m from = 1973 or=20 1974. That said 1815 to 1835 kHz with 10 Watts in CW, additionally one = SSB=20 channel for 1832 to 1835 kHz, so why not trying this on 630m, too? = Here in=20 Germany we are currently limited to 800 Hz bandwidt but I am sure we = can sork=20 towards a special license under certain conditions such as daylight = operation=20 only .. sounds good to me!
 
Vy 73
 
Geri, DK8KW
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent:=20 Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:58 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band ?

Hi Pete
 
Its  quite  obvious that  the  = allocation =20 is   quite  able  to  support =20 normal   armature  activity , and  why  = not  ?=20 its no  longer a experimental  allocation , its just = the =20 same  as   10  or top  band , un = expected =20 results  today though !  ssb  sounds  odd  = ,=20 may  be  as  the  path is  stable = ,  =20 sstv ?  must  be a  narrow  mode  , and = the =20 'new'  digital  voice  is 2KHz  , but that  = requires  a  linear  Tx  path 
 
As  for  the  band edge
 
 I'm  straining  to  find  a =20 engineering   reason  , that  wspr  = and =20 qrss  has  decided to  run mid band ? Im = sure =20 users had a  reasonable discussion  at the =20 introduction  of the  band , to  place the  = modes =20 at the  edges , with  live  cw a the  = lower =20 portion ?  its well  know  that  = these =20 long  carrier  modes  cause  disruption  = to =20 other  band  users and  are  well  = placed  at=20 the  band  edges  , 'vanity  beacons'  = is a=20 term I have  seen  noted  in referral, as=20 occupancy  increases , by users  not  linked or  = even  aware  of   discussions   taking = place=20 on these  groups , i'm sure there  will =20 be  problems  leading  to  the =20 introduction  of  band plan's  , for  some  = the  plans  form  part of the  licence  = conditions=20 ..
 
Is Opera  a vanity  system ? , actually  = no,=20 it  compliments   ros-  data  mode in = that =20 the  ave s/n   readings  can be used to =20 determine  if  a  path  will  support  = the  data  mode , each  having  the =20 same   averaging  s/n  reading  taken along = the  time  line  ,
 
73 -G..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:21 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: 477 A local SSB chat band = ?

Hi all
 
One SSB channel at the high edge of the band only used = during=20 daylight hours no DXing!

73 es GL es HNY Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>= ;
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: = Wednesday, 2=20 January 2013, 16:13
Subject: LF: 477 A local = SSB chat=20 band ?

Quite  intriguing  propagation  on this =20 'new'  band
 
From  some  unexpected  early  600 = mile =20 +   Opera  decodes  last  night  , = to =20 several   wspr   TA  decodes ,  = [G8's =20 again ..]     to   = today's  =20 test  with  Gary  using   USB-SSB  = voice ,=20
 
Where  as at   1300z  =  we =20 had  5/9  signals each  way  as =20 expected   over 25 miles  ,  = GI3PDN  =20 Ray  , called  on CW , to   give  a  = report=20 of  5/9 across  the  Irish   Sea  ,=20 some  100  miles  for  our  two  = signals ,=20 his  CW also  in the  5/9/9  region, one  = wonders  how  far  inland  the signals =20 travelled  ?
 
After a  short 3  way  qso,  we closed = the =20 test  round 1330z  ,  may  not of been=20  quite  as  sociable  after  dark  , = but  with a  small  Ae  , 40 x 70  = ft  iv=20 L  and   35  ft  Top load  = vert  ,=20 50  watts  pep  , results  = defiantly  =20 superior  to  say  160  mtrs  using  = the  same  Ae's
 
73 -G
G0NBD
 
 
=
 




------=_NextPart_000_0053_01CDE9B2.6ACF8D90--