Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mp01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E20F0380000BC; Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TytZI-0003zi-T3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:24:24 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TytZI-0003zZ-3A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:24:24 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TytZE-0003VA-Su for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:24:23 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.47.186]) by mwinf5d10 with ME id sQPu1k00L411LH603QPz6U; Sat, 26 Jan 2013 01:24:00 +0100 Message-ID: <4B25B93C84774ADD8DD56DCE3F8BAE59@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <007101cdfb30$30caa000$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><57CF9CB488D64845990D272CA4221830@AGB> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 00:23:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Roger Well , Opera and Ros (mf) have the qrg listed in the software , Opera is running on 477 KHz usb dial , the actual RF carrier frequency's are also listed for these 'dial set' Note that OP4 and OP8 modes use different audio / rf bands , this evolved out of development to reduce false decodes , so care is needed to ensure the correct audio pass band is addressed if a stand alone tx is used [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 036bca010fe98b6e9856486166ba1740 Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01B5_01CDFB5B.6CBFD780" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1dc145510322943435 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01B5_01CDFB5B.6CBFD780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger=20 Well , Opera and Ros (mf) have the qrg listed in the software = , Opera is running on 477 KHz usb dial , the actual RF = carrier frequency's are also listed for these 'dial set' =20 Note that OP4 and OP8 modes use different audio / rf bands , = this evolved out of development to reduce false decodes , so = care is needed to ensure the correct audio pass band is = addressed if a stand alone tx is used =20 The same applies on LF with 136.000 usb dial set being now = in use for over 1 year , OP8 and OP32 having differing = audio/rf bands .. also listed in the software=20 Ros (mf) (100 Hz b/w) is listed at 476 KHz , this is a fixed = audio band for MF-7 ( same speed as psk31) and MF-2 about 4 = times slower and x4 more sensitive ( equal to wspr-2) , the 2 = speeds use the same frequency , the software detecting which = speed is in use=20 Of course , nothing is set in stone , but Tx / Rx alignment is = needed for successful intercept , you can tune over Opera upto = 50% after the start and still decode ( as long as you stop !) , = but Ros mode needs the initial lock frame to be detected or no = decode is possible=20 'We' did place Opera / wspr / ros at the top of the band , out = of the way of the larger 'clear' mid band slot , but , for = reasons un-known (ish) , qrss and wspr remain mid band , where = as dual monitoring of wspr-2 and Opera are possible on the same = dial set , 'we' have advised that Op users maintain the 477 = slot , in anticipation that wspr will migrate back to the band = edge , possibly during the summer when the TA possibility has = receded , following 477 allocation to the usa its not likely a = beacon will be placed mid band , due to the limited CW space Low = band , I would expect HF to be allocated in any band plans , there = not being the traditional 'voice' section=20 73 -G. From: Roger Lapthorn=20 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:41 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF Regarding data on 472kHz band, apart from WSPR and CW (where I know = where to operate) where can I find the preferred frequency slots for = JT9, OPERA etc? I don't recall seeing this anywhere yet. This is where a "light touch" guidance band plan would be helpful.=20 73s Roger G3XBM On 25 January 2013 22:01, Graham wrote: DATA modes Not even that Mal, only been a few data qso's since the band = was released , very odd , but I think , mode to RF generation remains = a big problem G.. -------------------------------------------------- From: "mal hamilton" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:14 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF Chris There are stns working CW but mostly amongst themselves above 500 = Khz. I have not listened for some time so not sure what is happening at = present. In the past the ones that I have heard are usual in Beacon mode at = around 5 wpm or QRSS. I have worked both the USA es Canada on 500 Khz CW some years back = but this was pre arranged and CW was more popular and no DATA modes about = like the present time. There is very little mention from across the pond on this reflector = about what is happening at present regarding working in QSO mode across to = Europe It seems BEACONS and DATA modes are popular at present but I prefer = CW I hope this answers your question but you could ask on the reflector = if anyone across the pond is interested in CW QSO operating with Europe = and see if anyone responds. 73 es gl de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Groeger" To: Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:41 PM Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF Mal, Are there stns qrv in normal cw in US and Canada on mf? I'm just building big mf antenna and would like to try dx.. Here no qrs possible. 73, df5qg Christian Groeger mal hamilton schrieb: >Laurence >tnx for the info. >The excitement of 136 Khz has long gone when there was no = Internet involvement. I used to call CQ on CW or QRSS and QSX 7033 Kcs. The excitement started when I got replies from the USA and Canada to the = West and the Russians the East. >and conducted a proper two way QSO, plus lots of CW QSO'S around = EU >There is no pleasure churning out a BEACON 24/7 unattended and = hoping that someone reports reception via the Internet. >I only Transmit if there is a chance of getting a two way QSO. It = worked well back then so that is what I expect now. >The same applies to MF. That band has also turned into a BEACON = 24/7 operation most of the time. >Machine handshaking Machine if the Machine is lucky !! >G3KEV > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Laurence KL1 X > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Cc: rsgb > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF > > > Look forward to seeing your signal in KL7 someday Mal - hasnt = happened yet sadly. > > > To date Ive never seen LF/MF signals from Eu that wouldnt = require a little more than ear/brain decode processing > > Laurence in VE5 > > On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "mal hamilton" = wrote: > > > LF es MF > Is there anyone able to QSO these days on either CW or QRSS = on the 136 or 472 Khz bands, or where appropriate xband. > I am not interested in BEACON 24/7 hoping for a HIT somewhere = in the world.even though at this time of year propagation is optimum. > I would prefer to go back to the past where QSO mode was the = normal procedure and not QSL via internet. > At present I would expect to be able to QSO with KL7 es YV if = they were suitably equipped to Transmit on QRSS 30 - 60 > I do not think anyone from the UK or EU has made a QSO on = LF/MF in recent years across to North America or Russia on either CW or QRSS > > De G3KEV > > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ http://qss2.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM ------=_NextPart_000_01B5_01CDFB5B.6CBFD780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger
 
Well  , Opera  and  Ros  (mf)  have = the =20 qrg  listed  in the  software  ,  Opera =20 is   running  on 477 KHz   usb  dial  = ,=20 the  actual  RF carrier  frequency's  are also  = listed  for  these 'dial set'   
 
Note that  OP4   and  OP8  modes  use = different   audio / rf  bands  , this  = evolved =20 out of development  to  reduce  false  decodes  = ,=20 so  care is needed  to  ensure  the  = correct =20 audio  pass  band  is  addressed  if a  = stand=20 alone  tx is  used 
 
The  same  applies on  LF  with  =20 136.000   usb  dial  set  being  now  = in=20 use  for  over  1  year  , OP8 and  = OP32 =20 having  differing   audio/rf  bands .. also =20 listed  in the  software
 
 Ros (mf)  (100 Hz b/w) is   listed =20 at   476 KHz  , this  is a  fixed  = audio =20 band  for  MF-7  ( same  speed as  psk31)  = and   MF-2   about  4  times  = slower =20 and  x4  more  sensitive ( equal to  wspr-2)  , = the  2  speeds  use the  same  frequency , = the =20 software   detecting which  speed  is  in use =
 
Of course , nothing  is set in  stone , but Tx / = Rx =20 alignment is  needed  for successful  intercept , = you =20 can  tune  over  Opera   upto  50%  = after=20 the  start  and   still  decode ( as = long  as=20 you stop !)  , but  Ros mode  needs  the  = initial =20 lock frame to be  detected  or  no  decode is  = possible=20
 
'We' did  place  Opera  / wspr / ros  at = the =20 top  of the  band  , out  of the  way of = the =20 larger  'clear'  mid  band  slot  , but  , = for  reasons un-known  (ish) , qrss  and =20 wspr  remain  mid  band  ,  where  = as =20 dual  monitoring  of   wspr-2  and =20 Opera  are possible on the  same  dial  = set  ,=20 'we'  have  advised  that  Op users maintain = the =20 477  slot , in anticipation  that  wspr  = will  =20 migrate  back to  the  band  edge  , possibly =  =20 during  the  summer  when the  TA possibility = has =20 receded , following  477  allocation  to the  = usa  its=20 not  likely  a  beacon will  be  placed  = mid =20 band , due to the  limited  CW space  Low band , I = would =20 expect HF to  be  allocated  in any  band plans ,=20 there  not  being  the  traditional  =20 'voice'  section
 
73 -G.
 

From: Roger Lapthorn
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:41 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF

Regarding data on 472kHz band, apart from WSPR and CW (where I know = where=20 to operate) where can I find the preferred frequency slots for JT9, = OPERA etc? I=20 don't recall seeing this anywhere yet.

This is where a = "light=20 touch"  guidance band plan would be helpful.=20

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 25 January 2013 22:01, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
DATA modes

Not  even  that =  Mal,=20  only been   a few  data  qso's  since the =  band=20  was released , very odd , but I think , mode to  RF = generation=20  remains  a  big=20 = problem

G..

----------------------------------------= ----------
From:=20 "mal hamilton" <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Sent: Friday, January = 25, 2013=20 7:14 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: = LF: LF es=20 MF

Chris
There are stns working CW but mostly = amongst=20 themselves above 500 Khz. I
have not listened for some time so = not sure=20 what is happening at present.
In the past the ones that I have = heard are=20 usual in Beacon mode at around 5
wpm or QRSS.
I have worked = both the=20 USA es Canada on 500 Khz CW some years back but this
was pre = arranged and=20 CW was more popular and no DATA modes about like the
present=20 time.
There is very little mention from across the pond on this = reflector=20 about
what is happening at present regarding working in QSO mode = across=20 to Europe
It seems BEACONS and DATA modes are popular at present = but I=20 prefer CW
I hope this answers your question but you could ask on = the=20 reflector if
anyone across the pond is interested in CW QSO = operating=20 with Europe and see
if anyone responds.
73 es gl de=20 mal/g3kev

----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Groeger" = <aot.aot@gmx.de>
To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: = Saturday,=20 January 19, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF


Mal,
Are there stns qrv in normal cw in US = and Canada=20 on mf?
I'm just building big mf antenna and would like to try=20 dx..
Here no qrs possible.
73, df5qg

Christian=20 Groeger

mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 schrieb:

>Laurence
>tnx for the info.
>The=20 excitement of 136 Khz has long gone when there was no=20 Internet
involvement. I used to call CQ on CW or = QRSS and=20 QSX 7033 Kcs. The
excitement started when I got replies from the = USA and=20 Canada to the West
and the Russians the East.
>and conducted a proper two way QSO, plus = lots of CW=20 QSO'S around EU
>There is no pleasure churning out a BEACON = 24/7=20 unattended and hoping
that someone reports = reception via the=20 Internet.
>I only Transmit if there is a chance of = getting a=20 two way QSO. It worked
well back then so that is = what I=20 expect now.
>The same applies to MF. That band has also = turned=20 into a BEACON 24/7
operation most of the time.
>Machine handshaking Machine if the Machine = is lucky=20 !!
>G3KEV
>
>
>
>
> =  -----=20 Original Message -----
>  From: Laurence KL1 X
>=20  To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>  Cc: = rsgb
>  Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:14 PM
>=20  Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF
>
>
>  Look = forward=20 to seeing your signal in KL7 someday Mal - hasnt=20 happened
yet sadly.
>
>
>   To date Ive never = seen LF/MF=20 signals from Eu that wouldnt require a
little more = than=20 ear/brain decode processing
>
>  Laurence in = VE5
>
>=20  On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "mal hamilton" <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
wrote:
>
>
>    LF es = MF
>=20    Is there anyone able to QSO these days on either CW = or QRSS=20 on the
136 or 472 Khz bands, or where appropriate = xband.
>    I am not interested in BEACON = 24/7=20 hoping for a HIT somewhere in the
world.even = though at this=20 time of year propagation is optimum.
>    I would prefer to go back to = the past=20 where QSO mode was the normal
procedure and not = QSL via=20 internet.
>    At present I would expect to = be able=20 to QSO with KL7 es YV if they
were suitably = equipped to=20 Transmit on QRSS 30 - 60
>    I do not think anyone from the = UK or=20 EU  has made a QSO on LF/MF in
recent years = across to=20 North America or Russia on either CW or QRSS
>
>    De=20 = G3KEV
>
>
>





--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
http://qss2.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM

= ------=_NextPart_000_01B5_01CDFB5B.6CBFD780--