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[86.14.226.229]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u6sm1590788wif.2.2013.01.25.23.50.08 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:50:09 -0800 (PST) References: <007101cdfb30$30caa000$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <57CF9CB488D64845990D272CA4221830@AGB> <4B25B93C84774ADD8DD56DCE3F8BAE59@AGB> From: Roger Lapthorn X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: <4B25B93C84774ADD8DD56DCE3F8BAE59@AGB> Message-Id: <0559364D-4771-4B6E-AB36-035B89708055@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 07:50:09 +0000 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Thanks Graham. 73s Roger G3XBM On 26 Jan 2013, at 00:23, "Graham" wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.212.180 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rogerlapthorn[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 8ebe6025b6827c1895957ab180d8d5b9 Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E33A00A7-31DF-41C4-9EC6-FD1832CE2E9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ca51038b2b0cdc X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --Apple-Mail-E33A00A7-31DF-41C4-9EC6-FD1832CE2E9D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Graham.=20 73s Roger G3XBM=20 On 26 Jan 2013, at 00:23, "Graham" wrote: > Roger > =20 > Well , Opera and Ros (mf) have the qrg listed in the software , = Opera is running on 477 KHz usb dial , the actual RF carrier fre= quency's are also listed for these 'dial set' =20 > =20 > Note that OP4 and OP8 modes use different audio / rf bands , thi= s evolved out of development to reduce false decodes , so care is ne= eded to ensure the correct audio pass band is addressed if a stan= d alone tx is used=20 > =20 > The same applies on LF with 136.000 usb dial set being now in= use for over 1 year , OP8 and OP32 having differing audio/rf ba= nds .. also listed in the software > =20 > Ros (mf) (100 Hz b/w) is listed at 476 KHz , this is a fixed au= dio band for MF-7 ( same speed as psk31) and MF-2 about 4 times= slower and x4 more sensitive ( equal to wspr-2) , the 2 speeds us= e the same frequency , the software detecting which speed is in use > =20 > Of course , nothing is set in stone , but Tx / Rx alignment is needed = for successful intercept , you can tune over Opera upto 50% after t= he start and still decode ( as long as you stop !) , but Ros mode n= eeds the initial lock frame to be detected or no decode is possible > =20 > 'We' did place Opera / wspr / ros at the top of the band , out of= the way of the larger 'clear' mid band slot , but , for reasons un= -known (ish) , qrss and wspr remain mid band , where as dual moni= toring of wspr-2 and Opera are possible on the same dial set , 'we= ' have advised that Op users maintain the 477 slot , in anticipation t= hat wspr will migrate back to the band edge , possibly during th= e summer when the TA possibility has receded , following 477 allocatio= n to the usa its not likely a beacon will be placed mid band , due= to the limited CW space Low band , I would expect HF to be allocated = in any band plans , there not being the traditional 'voice' section= > =20 > 73 -G. > =20 >=20 > From: Roger Lapthorn > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:41 PM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF >=20 > Regarding data on 472kHz band, apart from WSPR and CW (where I know where t= o operate) where can I find the preferred frequency slots for JT9, OPERA etc= ? I don't recall seeing this anywhere yet. >=20 > This is where a "light touch" guidance band plan would be helpful.=20 >=20 > 73s > Roger G3XBM >=20 >=20 > On 25 January 2013 22:01, Graham wrote: >> DATA modes >>=20 >> Not even that Mal, only been a few data qso's since the band w= as released , very odd , but I think , mode to RF generation remains a b= ig problem >>=20 >> G.. >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "mal hamilton" >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:14 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF >>=20 >>> Chris >>> There are stns working CW but mostly amongst themselves above 500 Khz. I= >>> have not listened for some time so not sure what is happening at present= . >>> In the past the ones that I have heard are usual in Beacon mode at aroun= d 5 >>> wpm or QRSS. >>> I have worked both the USA es Canada on 500 Khz CW some years back but t= his >>> was pre arranged and CW was more popular and no DATA modes about like th= e >>> present time. >>> There is very little mention from across the pond on this reflector abou= t >>> what is happening at present regarding working in QSO mode across to Eur= ope >>> It seems BEACONS and DATA modes are popular at present but I prefer CW >>> I hope this answers your question but you could ask on the reflector if >>> anyone across the pond is interested in CW QSO operating with Europe and= see >>> if anyone responds. >>> 73 es gl de mal/g3kev >>>=20 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "C. Groeger" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Mal, >>>> Are there stns qrv in normal cw in US and Canada on mf? >>>> I'm just building big mf antenna and would like to try dx.. >>>> Here no qrs possible. >>>> 73, df5qg >>>>=20 >>>> Christian Groeger >>>>=20 >>>> mal hamilton schrieb: >>>>=20 >>>> >Laurence >>>> >tnx for the info. >>>> >The excitement of 136 Khz has long gone when there was no Internet >>> involvement. I used to call CQ on CW or QRSS and QSX 7033 Kcs. The >>> excitement started when I got replies from the USA and Canada to the Wes= t >>> and the Russians the East. >>>> >and conducted a proper two way QSO, plus lots of CW QSO'S around EU >>>> >There is no pleasure churning out a BEACON 24/7 unattended and hoping >>> that someone reports reception via the Internet. >>>> >I only Transmit if there is a chance of getting a two way QSO. It work= ed >>> well back then so that is what I expect now. >>>> >The same applies to MF. That band has also turned into a BEACON 24/7 >>> operation most of the time. >>>> >Machine handshaking Machine if the Machine is lucky !! >>>> >G3KEV >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Laurence KL1 X >>>> > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>> > Cc: rsgb >>>> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:14 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Look forward to seeing your signal in KL7 someday Mal - hasnt happen= ed >>> yet sadly. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > To date Ive never seen LF/MF signals from Eu that wouldnt require a= >>> little more than ear/brain decode processing >>>> > >>>> > Laurence in VE5 >>>> > >>>> > On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "mal hamilton" = >>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > LF es MF >>>> > Is there anyone able to QSO these days on either CW or QRSS on the= >>> 136 or 472 Khz bands, or where appropriate xband. >>>> > I am not interested in BEACON 24/7 hoping for a HIT somewhere in t= he >>> world.even though at this time of year propagation is optimum. >>>> > I would prefer to go back to the past where QSO mode was the norma= l >>> procedure and not QSL via internet. >>>> > At present I would expect to be able to QSO with KL7 es YV if they= >>> were suitably equipped to Transmit on QRSS 30 - 60 >>>> > I do not think anyone from the UK or EU has made a QSO on LF/MF i= n >>> recent years across to North America or Russia on either CW or QRSS >>>> > >>>> > De G3KEV >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ > http://qss2.blogspot.com/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >=20 --Apple-Mail-E33A00A7-31DF-41C4-9EC6-FD1832CE2E9D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Graham. 

73s
Roger G3XBM 

On 26 Jan 2013, at 00:23, "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Roger
 
Well  , Opera  and  Ros  (mf)  have the  qrg  listed  in the  software  ,  Opera  is   running  on 477 KHz   usb  dial  , the  actual  RF carrier  frequency's  are also  listed  for  these 'dial set'   
 
Note that  OP4   and  OP8  modes  use different   audio / rf  bands  , this  evolved  out of development  to  reduce  false  decodes  , so  care is needed  to  ensure  the  correct  audio  pass  band  is  addressed  if a  stand alone  tx is  used 
 
The  same  applies on  LF  with   136.000   usb  dial  set  being  now  in use  for  over  1  year  , OP8 and  OP32  having  differing   audio/rf  bands .. also  listed  in the  software
 
 Ros (mf)  (100 Hz b/w) is   listed  at   476 KHz  , this  is a  fixed  audio  band  for  MF-7  ( same  speed as  psk31)  and   MF-2   about  4  times  slower  and  x4  more  sensitive ( equal to  wspr-2)  , the  2  speeds  use the  same  frequency , the  software   detecting which  speed  is  in use
 
Of course , nothing  is set in  stone , but Tx / Rx  alignment is  needed  for successful  intercept , you  can  tune  over  Opera   upto  50%  after the  start  and   still  decode ( as long  as you stop !)  , but  Ros mode  needs  the  initial  lock frame to be  detected  or  no  decode is  possible
 
'We' did  place  Opera  / wspr / ros  at the  top  of the  band  , out  of the  way of the  larger  'clear'  mid  band  slot  , but  , for  reasons un-known  (ish) , qrss  and  wspr  remain  mid  band  ,  where  as  dual  monitoring  of   wspr-2  and  Opera  are possible on the  same  dial  set  , 'we'  have  advised  that  Op users maintain the  477  slot , in anticipation  that  wspr  will   migrate  back to  the  band  edge  , possibly   during  the  summer  when the  TA possibility has  receded , following  477  allocation  to the  usa  its not  likely  a  beacon will  be  placed  mid  band , due to the  limited  CW space  Low band , I would  expect HF to  be  allocated  in any  band plans , there  not  being  the  traditional   'voice'  section
 
73 -G.
 

Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF

Regarding data on 472kHz band, apart from WSPR and CW (where I know where to operate) where can I find the preferred frequency slots for JT9, OPERA etc? I don't recall seeing this anywhere yet.

This is where a "light touch"  guidance band plan would be helpful.

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 25 January 2013 22:01, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
DATA modes

Not  even  that  Mal,  only been   a few  data  qso's  since the  band  was released , very odd , but I think , mode to  RF generation  remains  a  big problem

G..

--------------------------------------------------
From: "mal hamilton" <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:14 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF

Chris
There are stns working CW but mostly amongst themselves above 500 Khz. I
have not listened for some time so not sure what is happening at present.
In the past the ones that I have heard are usual in Beacon mode at around 5
wpm or QRSS.
I have worked both the USA es Canada on 500 Khz CW some years back but this
was pre arranged and CW was more popular and no DATA modes about like the
present time.
There is very little mention from across the pond on this reflector about
what is happening at present regarding working in QSO mode across to Europe
It seems BEACONS and DATA modes are popular at present but I prefer CW
I hope this answers your question but you could ask on the reflector if
anyone across the pond is interested in CW QSO operating with Europe and see
if anyone responds.
73 es gl de mal/g3kev

----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Groeger" <aot.aot@gmx.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF


Mal,
Are there stns qrv in normal cw in US and Canada on mf?
I'm just building big mf antenna and would like to try dx..
Here no qrs possible.
73, df5qg

Christian Groeger

mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> schrieb:

>Laurence
>tnx for the info.
>The excitement of 136 Khz has long gone when there was no Internet
involvement. I used to call CQ on CW or QRSS and QSX 7033 Kcs. The
excitement started when I got replies from the USA and Canada to the West
and the Russians the East.
>and conducted a proper two way QSO, plus lots of CW QSO'S around EU
>There is no pleasure churning out a BEACON 24/7 unattended and hoping
that someone reports reception via the Internet.
>I only Transmit if there is a chance of getting a two way QSO. It worked
well back then so that is what I expect now.
>The same applies to MF. That band has also turned into a BEACON 24/7
operation most of the time.
>Machine handshaking Machine if the Machine is lucky !!
>G3KEV
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Laurence KL1 X
>  To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>  Cc: rsgb
>  Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:14 PM
>  Subject: Re: LF: LF es MF
>
>
>  Look forward to seeing your signal in KL7 someday Mal - hasnt happened
yet sadly.
>
>
>   To date Ive never seen LF/MF signals from Eu that wouldnt require a
little more than ear/brain decode processing
>
>  Laurence in VE5
>
>  On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:19 AM, "mal hamilton" <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
wrote:
>
>
>    LF es MF
>    Is there anyone able to QSO these days on either CW or QRSS on the
136 or 472 Khz bands, or where appropriate xband.
>    I am not interested in BEACON 24/7 hoping for a HIT somewhere in the
world.even though at this time of year propagation is optimum.
>    I would prefer to go back to the past where QSO mode was the normal
procedure and not QSL via internet.
>    At present I would expect to be able to QSO with KL7 es YV if they
were suitably equipped to Transmit on QRSS 30 - 60
>    I do not think anyone from the UK or EU  has made a QSO on LF/MF in
recent years across to North America or Russia on either CW or QRSS
>
>    De G3KEV
>
>
>







--
--Apple-Mail-E33A00A7-31DF-41C4-9EC6-FD1832CE2E9D--