Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AAA1E380000FC; Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TjCEw-0007xG-3U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:30 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TjCEv-0007x6-8Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:29 +0000 Received: from smtpout5.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.80] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TjCEr-0005d9-9r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:28 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.30.118]) by mwinf5d68 with ME id b5601k00Y2YuTqS03560xt; Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:06:04 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <007f01cdd89d$c87d6aa0$0501a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4EF6EABE52F0408D8BE58C225FE34A61@Clemens0811> <1355348072.24537.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <76D90FA1602A495EAE31F219BF4BAC7B@AGB> <1355351845.57185.YahooMailNeo@web133202.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5CEAE6C620754362B1A2B60515BCE36B@AGB> <1355401686.73904.YahooMailNeo@web133201.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1355401686.73904.YahooMailNeo@web133201.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:06:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Pete The problem will be for new stations who will take guidance that only the operation is based on beacons or close in cw nets , I have seen mention that ssb is not allowed and data is bandwidth restricted , voice was not a option on 500 (for us , but I have had xband ssb qso with Gus , 505 / 80 mtrs) , sure the band is large, but full of beacons already , so there is not very much clear room [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.80 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 4c9e30dd9afecf2a3a8f1867a485e110 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01CDD954.201A09B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONT_BIG, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d850ca0b470aa3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CDD954.201A09B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete=20 The problem will be for new stations who will take guidance that = only the operation is based on beacons or close in cw nets = , I have seen mention that ssb is not allowed and data is = bandwidth restricted , voice was not a option on 500 (for us , = but I have had xband ssb qso with Gus , 505 / 80 mtrs) , sure = the band is large, but full of beacons already , so there is = not very much clear room=20 Luckily everything is erp based , but even then as Mal's Mr = Crock has found out , big signals do not =3D qso's as skip = and Ae efficiency puts many signals in the noise , which only = leaves the one eye'd monster as a reliable means of = communication, equipment will also be a problem as most are based = on deep water technology , offering cw / qrss or wspr beacons = , as to having a actual qso to date , little is offered other = than the ros mf modes , mfsk works nicely but the s/n is not as = low as the ros-mf modes [ mf2 =3D same as wspr] , but psk = fails and needs a linear system and is many dB's worse as are = most of the HF modes=20 Innovation , not a word banded about very much down here and = when anything new is produced , Icky the fire bobby is always = just round the corner to spray cold water on it !=20 Whitehall closes at the end of next week , so to be before = 1/1/13 it will need to be out soon ! G..: )) From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:28 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room OK Graham=20 I get the message. What modes are going to be allowed on the new band = since it is an international allocation? Will there be a band width = imposed for any transmission type. I suppose we could down load the DL = licences conditions to see what they are allowed. Because up to now = dependent upon what you put in your NoV application is what you can do. = Did anyone put down 'Phone SSB 1.8kc/s BW for 501/4? The new band has = about enough room for four non interfering SSB channels. And with = overlap many more with Q5 potential SSTV, FAX all possible. If there is = too much restriction it may stifle innovation, on the other hand set up = a barrier and a way round it will be found. However we are in the dark = now but all will be revealed soon definitely before 1/1/2013 according = to my sources. Mal There is no doubt that he is a dyed in the wool OP with that antenna = farm WOW! I listen on TB at bottom end during the winter months and the = antennas some of them are using are huge not to mention the power.... = :-). With comments like "Just a minute old man I'll turn the = beam............ " and its not a joke! 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 0:24 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room CW ? good heavens no , why I was using CW on 500 the other day = till next door switched there festive flashing lights on and = reduced the episode to a total nonsense ! though come to think = of it , the signals where strong enough to of used one of the = spread spectrum data modes and would not of noticed the hash ! = and live CW in the mariana trench is virtually un heard of , in = all my listening , I can remember one station calling with live = CW on 136 , I think a GM , years ago ? since then the orange = people have taken over, using the 'one eyed monsters' ( sea = versions ? or c++ ) ! I think 500 should be looked on as the next band down from = 160 , we have proved there is nothing magical about the band , = 40 feet of wire with a coke bottle on the end has crossed the = pond , with wspr , ros-mf-7 and opera modes , ok it took 750 = feet of wire to get a live CW contact with Newfoundland , but = that was with 50 watts , and hard work as no one knew where the = window was , so 4 of us spent hours taking it in turns hand = keying gb4fpr in the dead of night .. I was thinking more of the orange light brigade , with = historical modes : ) new stations are starting to associate = low noise limited text length modes which cannot pass the two = cat's and dog test with real keyboard to keyboard data qso's . = , even with the prospect of a new band , there was not even a = hint of MF at the rsgb convention in October , so what has = happened ? what ever it is , there are going to be a lot of = new users very soon , the last thing anyone needs is a re-run = of 'Beacon Bedlam' brought on by miss guided guidance ! 73 -G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:37 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room Hi Graham If that was a thinly veiled insult to CW then I'm disappointed. Other = modes require the one eyed monster out of silicon valley and power = hungry devices for machine-human interface need I say more? Or have I = read you wrong? 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 12 December 2012, 21:45 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room Its not the radio rooms Pete , its the deep sea monsters = rising from the depths of over 2000 meters , some over 37,000 = metres and taking over our 600 meter play pool with pre = hysterical modes ! From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:34 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room Hi all Way way too much RADIO but can you have too much radio? = ............. you decide. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Clemens Paul To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 12 December 2012, 20:15 Subject: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room ...and here is a superb HAM radio room (scroll down!) http://www.qrz.com/db/w9evt 73 Clemens DL4RAJ=20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 8:21 PM To: rsgb Subject: LF: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTYtCAMvr4qg E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - http://www.avg.de/ Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virendatenbank: 2634/5453 - Ausgabedatum: = 12.12.2012=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CDD954.201A09B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete
 
The problem  will  be for  new  stations =20 who  will  take  guidance that  only  the  = operation  is  based on   beacons  = or   =20 close in cw   nets , I have  seen mention = that  =20 ssb  is  not  allowed  and   data  = is =20 bandwidth  restricted  , voice  was not a  = option  on=20 500  (for  us , but  I have  had  xband = ssb  qso=20  with  Gus , 505 /  80 mtrs)  , sure the  band = is =20 large, but  full  of   beacons  already  , = so  there  is  not  very much  clear  =  room=20
 
Luckily  everything  is  erp  based  = , =20 but  even  then  as Mal's  Mr  Crock  = has =20 found  out , big signals  do  not  =3D  =20 qso's   as  skip and  Ae efficiency  puts  = many  signals  in the  noise  , which  = only =20 leaves   the  one eye'd   monster  = as =20 a  reliable   means  of  communication, = equipment =20 will  also  be a  problem as most  are based = on =20 deep  water  technology  , offering   cw / = qrss=20   or  wspr   beacons ,   as to=20  having  a  actual   qso  to  = date ,=20 little is  offered  other  than the  ros mf=20 modes ,   mfsk  works  nicely but = the  s/n=20 is  not  as low as  the  ros-mf  modes  [ = mf2 =3D=20 same  as  wspr]  , but  psk   fails = and =20 needs  a  linear  system and  is  many =20 dB's   worse as  are most  of the  HF = modes
 
Innovation  , not  a  word  banded  = about =20 very much  down here  and  when  anything  new = is =20 produced   , Icky  the  fire  bobby  = is =20 always  just  round  the  corner  to  = spray =20 cold  water  on  it !
 
Whitehall   closes  at the  end of  = next =20 week , so  to  be  before  1/1/13   = it =20 will  need  to  be out  soon  !
 
G..: ))
 
 
 
From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:28 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio = Room

OK Graham
 
I get the message. What modes are going to be allowed on the = new band=20 since it is an international allocation? Will there be a band width = imposed for any transmission type. I = suppose=20 we could down load the DL licences conditions to see what they are = allowed.=20 Because up to now dependent upon what you put in your NoV application is = what=20 you can do. Did anyone put down  'Phone SSB 1.8kc/s BW for 501/4? = The new=20 band has about enough room for four non interfering SSB channels. = And with=20 overlap many more with Q5 potential SSTV, FAX all possible. If there is = too much=20 restriction it may stifle innovation, on=20 the other hand set up a barrier and a way round it will be=20 found. However we are in the dark now but all will be revealed = soon definitely before 1/1/2013 according to my = sources.
 
Mal
There is no doubt that he is a dyed in the wool OP with that = antenna=20 farm WOW! I listen on TB at bottom end during the winter months and the = antennas=20 some of them are using are huge not to mention the power.... :-). With = comments=20 like "Just a minute old man I'll turn the beam............ " and its not = a=20 joke!
 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Thursday, 13 = December=20 2012, 0:24
Subject: = Re: LF:=20 RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio Room

CW ? good  heavens  no , why I was  using  CW = on=20 500  the  other  day  till  next  = door =20 switched there  festive  flashing  lights  = on =20 and  reduced the  episode  to  a  total  = nonsense  ! though  come to  think of it , the =20 signals  where  strong enough  to  of  = used  one=20 of the  spread spectrum  data  modes  and =20 would  not  of  noticed  the  hash !  = and =20 live  CW  in the  mariana trench  is = virtually  =20 un heard of  , in all  my  listening  , I = can =20 remember  one  station  calling  with  = live  CW=20 on 136  , I think  a  GM  , years  ago  = ? =20 since then  the  orange  people  have  = taken =20 over, using  the  'one eyed monsters' ( sea versions  ? = or  c++ ) !
 
I think  500  should  be  looked  on as=20 the  next  band  down  from  160  , = we =20 have  proved  there  is  nothing  magical = about=20 the  band , 40 feet  of wire  with a  coke =20 bottle  on the  end  has  crossed  the  = pond ,=20 with   wspr ,  ros-mf-7  and  opera  = modes =20 , ok it  took 750  feet of wire  to  get = a =20 live  CW  contact  with  Newfoundland , but = that =20 was  with  50 watts , and  hard  work = as  no=20 one  knew  where  the  window  was , so  = 4=20 of  us spent  hours taking it  in turns   hand=20 keying  gb4fpr in the  dead of  night  ..
 
I was thinking  more  of the  orange  = light =20 brigade ,  with   historical  modes  : = ) =20  new  stations  are  starting  to =20 associate  low noise   limited  text length=20 modes   which  cannot  pass  the  = two =20 cat's  and  dog  test  with  real   = keyboard to keyboard data  qso's .  , even  with = the =20 prospect  of  a  new  band , there  was = not =20 even  a hint  of  MF  at the  rsgb=20 convention   in October , so  what  has =20 happened  ?    what  ever it  is , = there =20 are  going to  be a  lot of  new  users  = very=20 soon  , the  last  thing  anyone  needs  = is  a re-run  of 'Beacon Bedlam'   brought on = by =20 miss  guided  guidance  !
 
73 -G..
 
 
 
 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:37 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio = Room


Hi Graham
 
If that was a thinly veiled insult to CW = then I'm=20 disappointed. = Other modes=20 require the one eyed monster out of silicon valley and power = hungry devices = for machine-human=20 interface need I say more? Or have I read you wrong?

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>= ;
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: Wednesday, = 12=20 December 2012, 21:45
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: = Superb Ships=20 Radio Room

Its  not the  radio rooms  Pete , its  = the deep  sea monsters  rising  from the =20 depths  of   over  2000  meters  , = some =20 over 37,000  metres  and  taking  over =20 our   600  meter  play pool with pre hysterical=20  modes  !

From: M0FMT=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fw: Superb Ships Radio=20 Room

Hi all
 
Way=20 way too much RADIO but can you have too much radio? ............. you=20 decide.

73 es GL=20 Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: = Wednesday, 12=20 December 2012, 20:15
Subject: LF: RE: Fw: = Superb Ships=20 Radio Room

...and here is a superb HAM radio room (scroll=20 down!)
 
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of = mal = hamilton
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 December 12, 2012 8:21 PM
To: rsgb
Subject: = LF:=20 Fw:=20 Superb Ships Radio Room

 
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTYtCAMvr4qg
 
 
E-Mail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - http://www.avg.de/
Version: 2012.0.2221 / = Virendatenbank:=20 2634/5453 - Ausgabedatum: 12.12.2012=20 =






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