Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7CA0F38000103; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 09:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TeR9b-000467-Ly for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:01:19 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TeR9b-00045y-2s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:01:19 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TeR9X-0005qi-JC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:01:17 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgcCAEG7uFBcGSUu/2dsb2JhbAANLwiCSYlCoT+SWYECAQGCDQEBAQEDSUALCQgDAQEBAQkWCAcJAwIBAgE0CQgTBgIBAYd6AxureooFC4lWi1dpFwWEJQOWAIlKiWw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,191,1355097600"; d="scan'208,217";a="392488188" Received: from host-92-25-37-46.as13285.net (HELO [192.168.2.5]) ([92.25.37.46]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with ESMTP; 30 Nov 2012 14:00:54 +0000 Message-ID: <50B8BC15.4080702@psk31.plus.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:00:53 +0000 From: g3zjo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50B76F28.6040103@princeton.edu> <50B7728C.9050004@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <425211790.20121129174759@mterrier.net> <50B7981A.8000804@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <3BD64A7C261A4B98BA0FDA8D1B8ED955@White> <850AA386357A433C95B2595C9854AD0E@AGB> <14C68BF34317498EBE981ECB73A249E5@White> <37DDA2E5DB7B499C92656C9039C3472E@AGB> In-Reply-To: <37DDA2E5DB7B499C92656C9039C3472E@AGB> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 30/11/2012 01:05, Graham wrote: > Wobbly bob is a organic anti coherent compound that is only > available in imperial measures and may be used to induce > instability in carbon based analogue systems , analogous with > Doppler spread and multi path reception > >> http://www.phoenixbrewery.co.uk/history.htm > And you take the biscuit. I have just had a friend G8NJK in stitches > on the phone with your coherent description. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 85ec4a6bf4b19214eecc06056d1d344b Subject: Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010101000100090601080905" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d550b8bc5f13e9 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010101000100090601080905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 30/11/2012 01:05, Graham wrote: > Wobbly bob is a organic anti coherent compound that is only > available in imperial measures and may be used to induce > instability in carbon based analogue systems , analogous with > Doppler spread and multi path reception > >> http://www.phoenixbrewery.co.uk/history.htm > And you take the biscuit. I have just had a friend G8NJK in stitches > on the phone with your coherent description. Eddie > G.. )) > > *From:* Markus Vester > *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:59 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10 > > Hi Graham, > of course I would seriously compare modes, based on conveyed bits per > transmitted energy, or available radiated power. Of course I'd NEVER > EVER dare to compare anything against handmade CW, would I ;-)) > Won't delve into the numbers again. Well you say Opera may be slower > but is more robust... Then it's like the farm tractor which can master > rumbly ground, while 'JT is the fast train running only on a > carefully leveled steel track? ;-) On the other hand I believe there > is a lot more potential in the Opera modulation scheme, if only it > were be transmitted and received coherently. > However looking at my spectrogram with Stefan booming in here, I have > to say I'm glad he's currently not using on-off-keying... > But after all we're not on a crusade, hence the smileys ;-) > Best 73, > Markus (DF6NM) > PS what is "wobbly bob"? > PPS There's also a German dragon which brings luck to those using it. > We use the same word "Drachen" for dragon and kite ;-) > > *From:* Graham > *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:47 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10 > > Mk.. > Are you seriously comparing a time locked narrow frequency > tolerance MFSK system with one based on a free running > Manchester coded OOK system , immune from Doppler spread and > capable of simultaneous multi decodes running on standard ham > 'wobbly bob' equipment ? > Not forgetting the 'wobbly bob' system gives a average of the > signal along to the time line and not a peak (inverted) value , > so direct comparisons are a little misleading , > Just the same as say 'Long' means long in English and > Dragon in Mandarin and a English dragon breaths fire and the > other one is made of fishes and brings good luck ... > G: ) > > *From:* Markus Vester > *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:24 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10 > > Stefan, > yes, theoretically JT9-10 should work down to SNR -37 dB in 2.5 kHz > (which would read -41 dB on the Opera scale ;-) > Each of your transmissions has been decoded here. Are you receiving > JT9 as well? > Best 73, > MArkus (DF6NM) > ... > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5427 - Release Date: 11/29/12 > --------------010101000100090601080905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 30/11/2012 01:05, Graham wrote:
 
Wobbly bob  is  a  organic   anti coherent     compound  that is only  available  in   imperial   measures  and may  be used  to  induce  instability in carbon based   analogue  systems , analogous    with  Doppler  spread  and  multi  path  reception
 
 
And you take the biscuit. I have just had a friend G8NJK in stitches on the phone with your coherent description.

Eddie
G.. ))
 

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10

Hi Graham,
 
of course I would seriously compare modes, based on conveyed bits per transmitted energy, or available radiated power. Of course I'd NEVER EVER dare to compare anything against handmade CW, would I ;-)) 
 
Won't delve into the numbers again. Well you say Opera may be slower but is more robust... Then it's like the farm tractor which can master rumbly ground, while 'JT is the fast train running only on a carefully leveled steel track? ;-) On the other hand I believe there is a lot more potential in the Opera modulation scheme, if only it were be transmitted and received coherently.
 
However looking at my spectrogram with Stefan booming in here, I have to say I'm glad he's currently not using on-off-keying...
 
But after all we're not on a crusade, hence the smileys ;-)  
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
PS what is "wobbly bob"?
PPS There's also a German dragon which brings luck to those using it. We use the same word "Drachen" for dragon and kite ;-)

From: Graham
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10

Mk..
 
Are you  seriously  comparing  a time  locked   narrow  frequency   tolerance   MFSK    system with one  based on    a  free running  Manchester  coded    OOK  system , immune  from  Doppler  spread and  capable of  simultaneous  multi  decodes   running  on  standard  ham 'wobbly bob'   equipment ?
 
Not  forgetting  the  'wobbly bob'  system   gives a  average of the  signal  along to the time  line  and not a  peak  (inverted) value , so  direct comparisons  are a  little  misleading  , 
 
Just the  same  as  say  'Long'  means  long  in English   and  Dragon  in Mandarin  and a  English  dragon  breaths  fire  and the  other  one  is  made of  fishes and  brings good  luck ...
 
G: )
 

 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: LF: WSJT-X v0.5 r2786_JT9-10

Stefan,
 
yes, theoretically JT9-10 should work down to SNR -37 dB in 2.5 kHz (which would read -41 dB on the Opera scale ;-)
 
Each of your transmissions has been decoded here. Are you receiving JT9 as well?
 
Best 73,
MArkus (DF6NM)
... 
 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2634/5427 - Release Date: 11/29/12


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