Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mk03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 062813800009D; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TFWIa-0003X6-90 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:27:36 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TFWIZ-0003Wx-PA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:27:35 +0100 Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.100.31]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TFWIX-0008Jb-QL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:27:34 +0100 Received: from mtaout-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.3]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q8MKRKiZ024306; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:27:20 -0400 Received: from White (nrbg-4d072de3.pool.mediaWays.net [77.7.45.227]) by mtaout-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id DE917E0001E0; Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <67EB05DF190847BBAE1AA2575A50B433@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: References: <7F2208077DA448F78F384AF5B55DECA0@White> <505DD1D8.70901@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <829FB31FADAD4D4682EC509D2416C9F4@AGB> <005d01cd98fe$74bc6030$0501a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 22:27:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1348345640; bh=ah2hcLLGU4JVt6Bt+Mp96JtAcKSWU8HaAavNDRWpius=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=EiU4ugsmZ55FzhczJL+Iyg+Ue0B+SQzOvXXQwjWAS/wd7y1JtthEyVlC5cYEKd0YG NBbep20PqxSE9NJo+QELqZ36NzyqAZX0oJNFa6OTmmVj3wRIZ9/FsRmHStKVHm+r7e ZXS3+6eG08FsuYVHk6PEuOHbP27cAV/p8rmgUxok= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:439092448:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: No Mal, WSPR is constant envelope so no linear TX is required. And it produces no keyclicks during the transmission. I think Rik's quantitative SNR comparisons were in no way haphazard but very carefully done. The current slow WSPR tests are meant to be a proof of principle - some call this "experimentation" ;-) [...] Content analysis details: (-0.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.100.31 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 968492e608ae81f946d7c13a3d073eeb Subject: Re: LF: Re: Experimental software for WSPR-8 and -32 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD9911.6CF82D30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-mk03.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : mx.aol.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d6187505e1f6f01f8 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD9911.6CF82D30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Mal, WSPR is constant envelope so no linear TX is required. And it = produces no keyclicks during the transmission. I think Rik's quantitative SNR comparisons were in no way haphazard but = very carefully done. The current slow WSPR tests are meant to be a proof = of principle - some call this "experimentation" ;-) Best regards, Markus (DF6NM) From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:11 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Experimental software for WSPR-8 and -32 I doubt if WSPR is as good as OPERA taking all things into = consideration. WSPR needs Linear PA at 35% efficiency. Opera works with = an amplifier in class D or E at 90% efficiency. CW es QRS likewise works = with D or E class amp.=20 You have to look at the bigger picture. To get a proper evaluation transmit the same ERP with each mode bearing = in mind the inefficiency of a Linear amplifier versus a class D or E = which is over twice as efficient. The way tests are being conducted at = present are too haphazard to be meaningful Twice as much DC input power is needed with a Linear amp to generate the = same ERP as a class D or E. g3kev ... ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD9911.6CF82D30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No Mal, WSPR is constant envelope so no = linear TX=20 is required. And it produces no keyclicks during the = transmission.
 
I think Rik's quantitative SNR = comparisons were in=20 no way haphazard but very carefully done. The current slow WSPR tests = are meant=20 to be a proof of principle - some call this "experimentation" = ;-)
 
Best regards,
Markus (DF6NM)

Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:11 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Experimental software for WSPR-8 and=20 -32

I doubt if WSPR is as good as OPERA taking all = things into=20 consideration. WSPR needs Linear PA at 35% efficiency. Opera works with = an=20 amplifier in class D or E at 90% efficiency. CW es QRS likewise works = with=20 D or E class amp.
You have to look at the bigger = picture.
To get a proper evaluation transmit the same ERP = with each=20 mode bearing in mind the inefficiency of a Linear amplifier versus a = class D or=20 E which is over twice as efficient. The way tests are being conducted at = present=20 are too haphazard to be meaningful
Twice as much DC input power is needed with a = Linear amp=20 to generate the same ERP as a class D or E.
g3kev
 
...
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