Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1627B38000088; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1T78Nw-0000UA-J4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:18:28 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1T78Nv-0000U1-Lx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:18:27 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s4.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T78Ns-0005RU-PK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:18:26 +0100 Received: from BLU153-W10 ([65.55.116.8]) by blu0-omc1-s4.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:18:23 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [136.226.254.42] From: Laurence KL7UK To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:18:22 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <503EA718.2010301@charter.net>,<8CF54D89088EA63-22E8-50D77@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> , MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2012 17:18:23.0376 (UTC) FILETIME=[75A7B900:01CD86D3] X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Thanks G I can/could go comm port keying but prefer the audio being lazy.- it appears in my set up that the rise time is very short and less than the 5mSec thats generally accepted as required hence the click - but Im sure Im seeing more than just the first rise of the sine, Ill do some more delving - but Im sure the software could be make more soft with a slower ramp as done on Markus' Chirpix and some of the PSK programs - It appears to be an anomoly with only Opera here? Am I alone? Laurence From: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:46:22 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks, and over the Pole [...] Content analysis details: (-0.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.15 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hellozerohellozero[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.2 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 17acae084404f211678801ec6cbf7d97 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a59dff37-ef10-48f4-a1ce-520dcda928d9_" Subject: RE: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks, and over the Pole X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4115503fbef05915 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_a59dff37-ef10-48f4-a1ce-520dcda928d9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks G I can/could go comm port keying but prefer the audio being lazy.-= it appears in my set up that the rise time is very short and less than th= e 5mSec thats generally accepted as required hence the click - but Im sure = Im seeing more than just the first rise of the sine=2C Ill do some more del= ving - but Im sure the software could be make more soft with a slower ramp= as done on Markus' Chirpix and some of the PSK programs - It appears to be= an anomoly with only Opera here? Am I alone? Laurence From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu=2C 30 Aug 2012 17:46:22 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks=2C and over the Pole L.. =20 If you running fixed =20 frequency =2C you could use the com-port CW=20 keying option and set the Tx to CW mode =20 if there is a problem with the audio drive=20 . =20 Any ALC and or AGC =20 will causes large over swing's =2C depending on=20 the pulse length / off time and alc =20 time constants =2C I think Amtor -arq was the =20 only data mode that had similar problems =2C due to=20 the pulse shape=20 =20 A quick test is using =20 a Peak reading power meter =2C should be =20 very little change when switching from Pk to =20 normal =2C or observing the RF=20 envelope. =20 =20 73 -G.. =20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 Sent: Thursday=2C August 30=2C 2012 5:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks=2C and over the=20 Pole Markus - I looked at the audio coming out of my=20 sound card using Opera 2 and certainly the keying on waveform=2C in my=20 opinion is pretty fast rise and the click is very tangible =20 In=20 fact what I see is for shorter keying periods the key on rise is slower -=20 but if theres a substantial gap the next audio tone on is very harsh and th= e key=20 click hits the audio agc very hard.. Now=2C this may be my sound card=2C bu= t turning=20 levels down doesnt appear to change the ramp up rate at key on looking on=20 the scope. I dont get the same with other keyed audio tone problems that=20 have a more softkeying ramp. Just my observation here=2C wonder if it can b= e=20 made a little softer if its more than my local conditions=20 here. =20 Over the pole wise Im still seeing nothing from Europe and=20 only the first tinges of DCF39 being visible at dot 60 slow - just.=20 Laurence KL1X Alaska To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: markusvester@aol.com Date: Thu=2C 30=20 Aug 2012 11:09:20 -0400 Subject: LF: Opera frequency usage Sorry=2C no joy=20 here from John's Op-8 last night=2C due to several adverse conditions: =20 - relatively high QRN levels. Little one can do about it - the ol' rule=20 "listen when QRN is low=2C transmit when it's high" is probably the best gu= ide for=20 intercontinental LF work. =20 - wrong RX frequency: I had set up my 2 Hz wide recording on 137561 and=20 went to bed before John's update arrived... In my opinion=2C splitting subbands=20 for different Opera submodes is not a good idea. I don't see a technical ne= ed=20 for it=2C and it eats up a lot of bandwidth=2C especially with the software= 's=20 automatic frequency selection. Anyway the 137.5-.6 band overlaps typical WS= PR=20 usage (137.4-.6). And the area above 137.6 (especially the DCF gap around=20 137.63) would be the best choice for QRSS-3 or 10 QSOs. =20 - DK7FC was active on a nearby frequency during most of the night. In=20 conjunction with the noise blanker the RX is desensitized by the a nearby s= trong=20 signal. The problem is exacerbated by high density of keyclicks in Opera (5= to=20 8x more than QRSS)=2C and that most seem to apply hard keying. Trying to=20 interleave operating times (eg. even vs odd days=2C or hours) is probably n= ot a=20 satisfactory solution. =20 If we seriously consider using Opera for intercontinental work=2C I believe= =20 that we should include it in the existing splitband scheme=2C with widely s= paced=20 subbands for East-to-West and West-to-East operation (the well-proven "TA" = and=20 "Eu" slots). For example=2C we could place a narrow Opera slot beneath each= of the=20 QRSS segments. So=2C open to discussion=2C here is one proposal for slow-mo= de band=20 usage: =20 137.77-137.78 W->E DX QRSS=2C DFCW 30..180 =20 137.76-137.77 W->E=20 DX Op 32 =20 137.60-137.75 mid range QRSS=2C DFCW 3..10 137.50-137.60 mid range Op=20 2..8 137.40-137.50 WSPR =20 136.17-136.18 E->W DX QRSS=2C DFCW 30..180 =20 136.16-136.17 E->W=20 DX Op 32 =20 Best 73=2C=20 Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=FCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: John Andrews An: rsgb_lf_group=20 Verschickt: Do=2C 30 Aug 2012 4:15=20 am Betreff: Re: LF: LF acty Stephan=2C=20 =20 Actually=2C Jay was talking about transmitting OP8 also tonight. Not sure = =20 of his plans. I will run XES until well after your sunrise.=20 =20 John=2C W1TAG/WD2XES=20 =20 On 8/29/2012 7:17 PM=2C Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote:=20 > Hello John=2C Joe=2C LF=2C=20 >=20 > Wow=2C now there is much going on tonite again. Another time i don't know= =20 > if i should RX or TX and in which mode...=20 > I think i will not have a chance to decode W1TAG in OP8=2C however VO1NA= =20 > in OP32 could be possible and would be my best rx-distance in OP.=20 > Furthermore i want to provide test signals for YV7MAE=2C so i'm now=20 > sending DFCW-90=2C after sending DFCW-180 to VK.=20 >=20 > John=2C will you transmit OP8 until the morning? Has Jay a chance to=20 > receive me in OP8 later or will you nearly overload his RX? :-)=20 >=20 > 73=2C Stefan/DK7FC=20 >=20 > PS: Our russian friends are doing a good job! Many stations=2C with good= =20 > receivers and transmitters!=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 30.08.2012 00:33=2C schrieb John Andrews:=20 >> Forgot about the split Opera band for the two data rates. The actual=20 >> frequency tonight will be 137.621 kHz. Stick with 136.0 USB for a dial=20 >> setting.=20 >>=20 >> John=2C W1TAG/WD2XES=20 > = --_a59dff37-ef10-48f4-a1ce-520dcda928d9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks G =3B I can/could go comm port keying but prefer the audio being= lazy.-
 =3B
 =3Bit appears in my set up that =3Bthe rise= time is very short and less than the 5mSec thats generally accepted as req= uired hence the click - but Im sure Im seeing more than just the first rise= of the sine=2C =3BIll do some more delving =3B-  =3Bbut Im sur= e the software =3Bcould be =3Bmake more soft with a slower ramp as = done on Markus' Chirpix and some of the PSK programs - It appears to be an = anomoly with only Opera here? Am I alone?
 =3B
Laurence
 = =3B
F= rom: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: T= hu=2C 30 Aug 2012 17:46:22 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: : Opera frequency usag= e and clicks=2C and over the Pole

L..
 =3B
If you =3B running =3B fixed&n= bsp=3B=20 frequency =3B =2C you =3B could =3B use the =3B com-port&nb= sp=3B CW=20 keying =3B option =3B and =3B set the =3B Tx to =3B CW = mode =3B=20 if =3B =3B there =3B is a problem =3B with the =3B audi= o =3B drive=20 .
 =3B
Any =3B ALC and =3B or =3B= AGC =3B=20 will =3B causes =3B large =3B over swing's =3B =2C dependin= g =3B on=20 the =3B pulse length =3B / off =3B time =3B and =3B&nbs= p=3B alc =3B=20 time =3B constants =2C I =3B think =3B Amtor -arq =3B was t= he =3B=20 only =3B data =3B mode that =3B had =3B similar problems&nb= sp=3B =2C due to=20 the =3B pulse shape
 =3B
A =3B quick =3B test =3B i= s =3B using =3B=20 a =3B Peak reading =3B power =3B meter =3B =2C should = =3B be =3B=20 very =3B little =3B change =3B when =3B switching =3B f= rom Pk to =3B=20 normal =3B=2C or =3B observing =3B the =3B RF=20 envelope. =3B =3B
 =3B
73 -G.. =3B

Sent: Thursday=2C August 30=2C 2012 5:19 PM
Subject: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks=2C and over the= =20 Pole


Markus =3B- =3B =3BI looked at the audio c= oming out of my=20 sound card using Opera 2 and certainly the keying on =3Bwaveform=2C in = my=20 opinion is pretty fast rise and the click is very tangible
 =3B
&= nbsp=3BIn=20 fact what I see is for shorter keying periods the key on =3Brise is slo= wer -=20 but if theres a substantial gap the next audio tone on is very harsh and th= e key=20 click hits the audio agc very hard.. Now=2C this may be my sound card=2C bu= t turning=20 levels down doesnt appear to change the =3Bramp up rate at key on looki= ng on=20 the scope. =3BI dont get the same with other keyed audio tone problems = that=20 have a more softkeying =3Bramp. Just my observation here=2C wonder if i= t can be=20 made a little softer if its more than my local conditions=20 here.
 =3B
Over the pole wise Im still seeing nothing from Europe= and=20 only the first tinges of DCF39 being visible at dot 60 slow - just.=20  =3BLaurence KL1X Alaska
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: markusvester@aol.com
Date: Thu= =2C 30=20 Aug 2012 11:09:20 -0400
Subject: LF: Opera frequency usage

Sor= ry=2C no joy=20 here from John's Op-8 last night=2C due to several adverse conditions:
 =3B
- relatively high QRN levels. Little one can do about it - the ol' rul= e=20 "listen when QRN is low=2C transmit when it's high" is probably the best gu= ide for=20 intercontinental LF work.
 =3B
- wrong RX frequency: I had set up my 2 Hz wide recording on 137561 an= d=20 went to bed before John's update arrived...
In my opinion=2C splitting s= ubbands=20 for different Opera submodes is not a good idea. I don't see a technical ne= ed=20 for it=2C and it eats up a lot of bandwidth=2C especially with the software= 's=20 automatic frequency selection. Anyway the 137.5-.6 band overlaps typical WS= PR=20 usage (137.4-.6). And the area above 137.6 (especially the DCF gap around=20 137.63) would be the best choice for QRSS-3 or 10 QSOs.
 =3B
- DK7FC was active on a nearby frequency during most of the night. In= =20 conjunction with the noise blanker the RX is desensitized by the a nearby s= trong=20 signal. The problem is exacerbated by high density of keyclicks in Opera (5= to=20 8x more than QRSS)=2C and that =3Bmost seem to apply hard keying. Tryin= g to=20 interleave operating times (eg. even vs odd days=2C or hours) is probably n= ot a=20 satisfactory solution.
 =3B
If we seriously consider using Opera for intercontinental work=2C I be= lieve=20 that we should include it in the existing splitband scheme=2C with widely s= paced=20 subbands for East-to-West and West-to-East operation (the well-proven "TA" = and=20 "Eu" slots). For example=2C we could place a narrow Opera slot beneath each= of the=20 QRSS segments. So=2C open to discussion=2C here is one proposal for slow-mo= de band=20 usage:
 =3B
137.77-137.78 W->=3BE DX QRSS=2C DFCW 30..180 =3B
137.76-137= .77 W->=3BE=20 DX Op 32
 =3B
137.60-137.75 mid range QRSS=2C DFCW 3..10
137.50-137.60 mid range = Op=20 2..8
137.40-137.50 WSPR
 =3B
136.17-136.18 E->=3BW DX QRSS=2C DFCW 30..180 =3B
136.16-136= .17 E->=3BW=20 DX Op 32
 =3B
Best 73=2C
Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=FCngliche Mittei= lung-----=20
Von: John Andrews <=3Bw1tag@charter.net>=3B
An: rsgb_lf_group=20 <=3Brsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=3B
Verschickt: Do=2C 30 Aug 2012 4= :15=20 am
Betreff: Re: LF: LF acty

Stephan=2C 

 

Actually=2C Jay was talking about transmitting OP8 also tonight. Not sure  =


of his plans. I will run XES until well after your sunrise. 

 

John=2C W1TAG/WD2XES 

 

On 8/29/2012 7:17 PM=2C Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: 

>=3B Hello John=2C Joe=2C LF=2C 

>=3B 

>=3B Wow=2C now there is much going on tonite again. Another time i don't=
 know 

>=3B if i should RX or TX and in which mode... 

>=3B I think i will not have a chance to decode W1TAG in OP8=2C however V=
O1NA 

>=3B in OP32 could be possible and would be my best rx-distance in OP. 
>=3B Furthermore i want to provide test signals for YV7MAE=2C so i'm now =


>=3B sending DFCW-90=2C after sending DFCW-180 to VK. 

>=3B 

>=3B John=2C will you transmit OP8 until the morning? Has Jay a chance to=
 

>=3B receive me in OP8 later or will you nearly overload his RX? :-) 

>=3B 

>=3B 73=2C Stefan/DK7FC 

>=3B 

>=3B PS: Our russian friends are doing a good job! Many stations=2C with =
good 

>=3B receivers and transmitters! 

>=3B 

>=3B 

>=3B Am 30.08.2012 00:33=2C schrieb John Andrews: 

>=3B>=3B Forgot about the split Opera band for the two data rates. The =
actual 

>=3B>=3B frequency tonight will be 137.621 kHz. Stick with 136.0 USB fo=
r a dial 

>=3B>=3B setting. 

>=3B>=3B 

>=3B>=3B John=2C W1TAG/WD2XES 

>=3B
= --_a59dff37-ef10-48f4-a1ce-520dcda928d9_--