Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 12E9A38000089; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SrxDC-0002Nj-Sf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:20:38 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SrxDA-0002Na-VY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:20:36 +0100 Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SrxD5-0003N2-DM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:20:35 +0100 Received: from pc-roelof (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q6JKKOgR093810 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:20:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4F54B686CBDD4096901F642791F2E253@gnat> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:20:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Roelof Bakker" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.00 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hello Alan, >>> What might be interesting if you could classify the path length of different paths (It depends whether you can find sufficient at the right range) It would be interesting to try and correlate the excess path loss against "hop number". I feel that if 1 hop has 6dB excess attenuation, a 3 hop path (5000 to 6000 km) should show around 18dB <<< [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [194.109.24.22 listed in list.dnswl.org] X-Scan-Signature: c9d6a1e47761f7ec7375ac340bef30d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes Subject: Re: LF: Re: Kyoto Dst question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:451219392:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d50086c6b5170 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Hello Alan, >>> What might be interesting if you could classify the path length of different paths (It depends whether you can find sufficient at the right range) It would be interesting to try and correlate the excess path loss against "hop number". I feel that if 1 hop has 6dB excess attenuation, a 3 hop path (5000 to 6000 km) should show around 18dB <<< I have noticed a phenomenon that might be less obvious when monitoring a single station. Propagation can be very selective in regards to geographic location. E.g. there are quite a few NDB's in New Foundland. It is not rare to hear one station with a good signal, whilst an other station is completely absent. This also applies for the receiving end. There are many stories of people living 20 km apart, where one has excellent reception and the other does not hear anything at all and vice versa. Last January we discovered a path to the North Bank of Alaska. This was NDB PVQ on 376 kHz. The path opened in the middle of the afternoon in the UK and extended to Normandy. At the same time I could not hear PVQ at all. However half an hour later it was audible in Middelburg and gone in the UK / Normandy. After a break of a few hours it faded up again and was audible all night with at times an amazing strong signal. >>> An interesting aside I spotted might be of interest to you. It regards daytime skywave so a path of about 1200 to 1400km. I found that the "precipitated" hot electrons from a big event were sufficient to give a kind of prolonged "flare effect". The increased signal during a flare event is due to he increased D-region ionisation. Similarly the increased ionisation due to precipitation can enhance the daytime skywave signals. The reports I have seen suggest the signals are most clearly enhanced around mid day at mid path. The effect is often only present for about one or at most two days after an event. <<< I have observed this on more than one occasion. In this case it was NDB KEM on 373 kHz from Kemi, Finland, about 2000 km away. It was found that reception at noon was a bad omen for nighttime DX propagation. I guess that it will be difficult to use NDB's for accurate propagation studies. However they are certainly useful to find some trends. A Italian listener received on July 6 a number of faultless decodes on NAVTEX on 518 kHz from VCO-Sydney, CAN NL, whilst on vacation on the southern tip of Sardinia Island. This was probably a first for summer. It is interesting to note that the DST at the time (02:45 UTC) was above 0! In one of your latest emails you mentioned the Dst value from Colorado University. I have searched the Internet, but could not find the data. Do you have a link? 73, Roelof, pa0rdt