Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EA5E1380000A4; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 17:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SnFo8-0007gr-Vb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 22:11:20 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SnFo7-0007gi-O5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 22:11:19 +0100 Received: from smtp05.online.nl ([194.134.41.35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SnFo4-0005Q5-LW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 22:11:18 +0100 Received: from smtp05.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp05.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDC35283A for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s529d275f.adsl.wanadoo.nl [82.157.39.95]) by smtp05.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:11:15 +0200 (CEST) From: To: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:11:14 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 In-Reply-To: <4FF74F3F.1030804@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Importance: Normal X-Antivirus: avast! 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Content preview: Hello Stefan, i fully agree with you,it is all about the fun of doing experiments,if the technicues are modern or oldfashioned doesn,t matter. 73 Victor [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [194.134.41.35 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 82e633ed992b3e9c80a756db450889a4 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01CD5BCC.A41A5EA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:477742880:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174ff754ba19f1 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01CD5BCC.A41A5EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, i fully agree with you,it is all about the fun of doing experiments,if th= e technicues are modern or oldfashioned doesn,t matter. 73 Victor PS; I work to live,I don't live to work -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juli 2012 22:49 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Hello Ken, The thing is, i want to have a very small VFO that consumes almost no power (say < 50 mA at 12V DC). Also i have a f divide by 4 PA and would l= ike to have a VFO that shows the frequency from 472...479 kHz, without the ne= ed to divide by 4 in my mind. I like to learn about simple analog oscillator= s by building them by myselfe, not using the VFO of a ready to use HF TRX. Furthermore it is no necessity for me (as an individual) to do things t= hat are up to date. Otherwise i would have to decide to stop with the old fashioned amateur radio hobby and do things that "all" men in my age (hav= e to) do: Working as much as possible to earn as much money as possible to consume as many useless things as possible, marrying, building a house, driving an expensive car (not older than 5 years of course), leaving the house in the morning in darkness to go to work and coming home again in darkness, AND: Saying " I have no time because of my job" and later "I ha= ve no time because of the grandchildren" or "My XYL said i have to...". :-) No, i prefer to build a simple Oscillator and i'm happy when it starts = to oscillate after a few hourse after starting the project. I like the helpf= ul comments from others and like to see the ongoing optimisation of that VFO= . This will not take 6 months but maybe rather 6 days (say 4 hours per day) and this work is fun. Lastly i am glad to come on the band with my MF station. It is the same with my PA and the complete LF stuff that seems t= o work pretty well, obviously. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 06.07.2012 19:19, schrieb Ken: Dear all. I have been following this thread from the start, and thought why bui= ld an Analog Oscillator when you most likely have a good one already i.e. my old FT707, if I tune from 3.776MHz to 3.832MHz, reduce the power into a 5= 0 ohm dummy load, tap off some of the output into a divide by 8, build two buffered 50 ohm outputs one to the tx the other to a frequency counter. I= t may be Heath Robinson but it beats spending six months trying to build a stable oscillator, also you can key the rig, ingenuity and a soldering ir= on? Most of you will have an old transceiver which includes top band so you n= eed only divide by 4. As Mal would say that=92s amateur radio at is best. 73s Ken M0KHW -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 06 July 2012 12:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Each to his own, but we would be giving questionable technical advice, if building a LC vfo was put foreword as the preferred pat= h to 500 , Racal's barlow-wadley patent expired round 1970 and was replaced with the digital - phase locked design in the ra1771/2 , wit= h 10 Hz stepping, round the same time ... Non of this is relevant now, with the DDS , plenty of good ex-equipment 5 MHz standards about , that gives a 10:1 clock ov= er head , all that's needed is a 500 band pass filter and output am= p , If a CW tx is all that's needed , later use the DDS as the conversion oscillator in a down converter .. OP QSO mode , good question , the phantom of the Opera works in mysterious ways .. its missing at the moment from the latest vers= ion , keep the old version for later in the year ! 73 -G.. From: mal hamilton Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:41 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Graham Getting One's Oscillator started seems to be the problem at present. Perhaps a transverter is the answer. What has happened to Opera QSO mode. I do not get any replies, others seem to favour Beacon mode. G3KEV ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators I would say the most useful thing to make would be a linear transmit HF > 500 convertor .. then all modes are possible , this is not 137 , ultra stable long qrss will not work , due to the shor= t qsb and varying skip distance, this can be observed in qso or beac= on mode , propagation will fail before the call is sent ! G.. From: Hans-Albrecht Haffa Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:16 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Dear Stefan, building stable oscillators was a topic in the eighties, and it depeded all on getting stable components. Later developing OMs reported, that the oscillator for the qrp-TRX was the most difficult and time consuming part in development. My recomendation: Buy aready built up DDS-oscillator, available at Funkamateur.de (herre with IQ-sigs) or ELV-Elektronik. It is stable, shows little noise on LF/MF. Must just be built into a enclosure. It is a time saving solution. But: DFCW is not possible, and a keyed frequency divider must be added; I divide by facto= r ten with CMOS-ICs. More details on request. 55, Hans-Albrecht, DK 8 ND Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Juli 2012 um 21:30 Uhr Von: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Hello Ha-Jo, Can you pull one of the xtals to cover the whole band? 73, Stefan Am 05.07.2012 20:57, schrieb hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de: > Dear all, > > the only parts I have bought so far for MF (still beeing engaged = in > other developments) are two crystals: 6,5536 MHz and 7,0200 MHz, = to be > mixed with each other. The mixer is another bipolar transistor, a= nd its > emitter current is being keyed. A final source follower after the > low-pass filter will deliver the output to 50 ohms. > > The same solution I have also used on LF. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > > Ihr WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail A= pp f=FCr iPhone und Android. https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/ ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01CD5BCC.A41A5EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 Stefan,
 
i=20 fully agree with you,it is all about the fun of doing experiments,if the = technicues are modern or oldfashioned doesn,t = matter.
 
73
Victor
 
PS; I=20 work to live,I don't live to work
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer
Verzonden: vrijdag 6 juli 2012 = 22:49
Aan:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators

Hello Ken,

The thing is, i want = to have=20 a very small VFO that consumes almost no power (say < 50 mA at 12V = DC).=20 Also i have a f divide by 4 PA and would like to have a VFO that shows = the=20 frequency from 472...479 kHz, without the need to divide by 4 in my = mind. I=20 like to learn about simple analog oscillators by building them by = myselfe, not=20 using the VFO of a ready to use HF TRX.
Furthermore it is no = necessity for=20 me (as an individual) to do things that are up to date. Otherwise i = would have=20 to decide to stop with the old fashioned amateur radio hobby and do = things=20 that "all" men in my age (have to) do: Working as much as = possible to=20 earn as much money as possible to consume as many useless things as = possible,=20 marrying, building a house, driving an expensive car (not older than 5 = years=20 of course), leaving the house in the morning in darkness to go to work = and=20 coming home again in darkness, AND: Saying " I have no time because of = my job"=20 and later "I have no time because of the grandchildren" or "My XYL = said i have=20 to...". :-)

No, i prefer to build a simple Oscillator and i'm = happy=20 when it starts to oscillate after a few hourse after starting the = project. I=20 like the helpful comments from others and like to see the ongoing = optimisation=20 of that VFO. This will not take 6 months but maybe rather 6 days (say = 4 hours=20 per day) and this work is fun. Lastly i am glad to come on the band = with=20 my MF station. It is the same with my PA and the complete LF = stuff that=20 seems to work pretty well, obviously.

73, = Stefan/DK7FC


Am=20 06.07.2012 19:19, schrieb Ken:=20

Dear=20 all.

I have = been=20 following this thread from the start, and thought why build an = Analog=20 Oscillator when you most likely have a good one already i.e. my old = FT707,=20 if I tune from 3.776MHz to 3.832MHz, reduce the power into a 50 ohm = dummy=20 load, tap off some of the output into a divide by 8, build two = buffered 50=20 ohm outputs one to the tx the other to a frequency counter. It may = be Heath=20 Robinson but it beats spending six months trying to build a stable=20 oscillator, also you can key the rig, ingenuity and a soldering = iron? Most=20 of you will have an old transceiver which includes top band so you = need only=20 divide by 4.  As Mal would say that=92s amateur radio at is = best.=20

73s

Ken    =20 M0KHW

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ]=20 On Behalf Of=20 Graham
Sent: 06=20 July 2012 12:04
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: = Analog=20 oscillators

Each to his  own, but we  = would =20 be  giving  questionable technical  advice, = if =20 building  a  LC  vfo  was put foreword  as=20 the  preferred path to  500 , Racal's  = barlow-wadley =20 patent   expired round  1970 and  was =20 replaced  with  the digital - phase locked  design in = the  ra1771/2 , with  10 Hz  stepping, = round =20 the  same time ...

Non  of this is  relevant now, = with=20 the  DDS , plenty of  good   ex-equipment   = 5 =20 MHz   standards  about , that  gives a  = 10:1 =20 clock  over  head , all  that's needed is a  = 500 =20 band  pass  filter   and  output  amp = ,=20 If  a  CW  tx is  all that's  needed , = later =20 use the  DDS  as the  conversion  = oscillator  in=20 a  down  converter ..

OP QSO mode  , good =20 question , the  phantom of the  Opera works in=20 mysterious   ways  .. its  missing  at = the  moment  from the  latest version , keep = the =20 old  version  for  later  in the  year !=20

73 -G..

From: mal = hamilton=20

Sent:=20 Friday, July 06, 2012 9:41 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Subject: Re:=20 Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators

Graham

Getting One's = Oscillator started=20 seems to be the problem at present. Perhaps a transverter is the=20 answer.

What has happened to = Opera QSO=20 mode. I do not get any replies, others seem to favour Beacon=20 mode.

G3KEV

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Graham =

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:27 PM

Subject: Re:=20 Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog = oscillators

I would  say  the most useful=20 thing  to  make  would  be a linear =20 transmit   HF > 500   convertor .. = then =20 all  modes are  possible ,  this  is not  = 137 ,=20 ultra stable  long qrss  will  not  work , due = to=20 the  short  qsb  and  varying   = skip =20 distance, this can be observed  in qso  or beacon  = mode ,=20 propagation  will  fail before the  call  = is =20 sent !

G.. 

From: Hans-Albrecht Haffa=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:16 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Subject: Aw:=20 Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators


Dear=20 Stefan,

building stable = oscillators=20 was a topic in the eighties, and it depeded all on getting stable=20 components. Later developing OMs reported, that the oscillator for = the=20 qrp-TRX was the most difficult and time consuming part in = development. My=20 recomendation: Buy aready built up DDS-oscillator, available at=20 Funkamateur.de  (herre with IQ-sigs) or ELV-Elektronik.  = It is=20 stable, shows  little noise on LF/MF. Must just be built into = a=20 enclosure.  It is a time saving solution. But: DFCW is not = possible,=20 and a keyed frequency divider  must be added; I divide by = factor ten=20 with CMOS-ICs.  More details on request.=20

55, Hans-Albrecht, = DK 8=20 ND

Gesendet: Donnerstag, = 05. Juli=20 2012 um 21:30 Uhr
Von: "Stefan = Sch=E4fer" <Stefan.Schaefer= @iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Betreff: Re: LF: RE: = Analog=20 oscillators

Hello=20 Ha-Jo,

Can you pull one of the xtals to cover the whole=20 band?

73, Stefan

Am 05.07.2012 20:57, schrieb hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online= .de:
>=20 Dear all,
>
> the only parts I have bought so far for = MF=20 (still beeing engaged in
> other developments) are two = crystals:=20 6,5536 MHz and 7,0200 MHz, to be
> mixed with each other. = The mixer=20 is another bipolar transistor, and its
> emitter current is = being=20 keyed. A final source follower after the
> low-pass filter = will=20 deliver the output to 50 ohms.
>
> The same solution I = have=20 also used on LF.
>
> 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB
>
>=20
>

  

Ihr WEB.DE=20 Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail App f=FCr = iPhone und=20 Android.   
https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/<= O:P>

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