Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BA25D3800008D; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SoLnr-0000uj-Il for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 22:47:35 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SoLnq-0000ua-OU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 22:47:34 +0100 Received: from smtpout2.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.42] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SoLno-0002qD-1L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 22:47:33 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.46.121]) by mwinf5d30 with ME id YMnL1j0022csL7W03MnL91; Mon, 09 Jul 2012 23:47:20 +0200 Message-ID: <99AB2ED3E4EB43C8AED4290159D4261A@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <4FFA2783.9080906@kpnmail.nl> <5A1F1F9742724F4C9C52ABB0BDBCB045@2a2d7ed321c6425> In-Reply-To: <5A1F1F9742724F4C9C52ABB0BDBCB045@2a2d7ed321c6425> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:47:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOROk, Gerhard Yes , similar, but the Opera s/n level is calibrated against the path-sim software and reads , we think, round 6 dB higher so for this decode , Op = -23 , wspr should give -29 dB ...... [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 397641f52e4bfc8d18c92e831da0ff26 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01CD5E24.CC05ACD0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:410042752:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94ffb51ac3f45 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01CD5E24.CC05ACD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOROk, Gerhard Yes , similar, but the Opera s/n level is calibrated against the = path-sim software and reads , we think, round 6 dB higher=20 so for this decode , Op =3D -23 , wspr should give -29 dB = ...... =20 Op gives the average of the transmission , along the time line , = so in qsb , the average signal level will show lower , where the = Peak will remain the same , wspr gives a Peak value , so the = two systems always give differing values =20 Opera and Ros data modes use the same average levels , to give = a 'path usability' figure=20 ROS-MF-2 will function down to -27 dB , so any levels above = this could be used for 2 way data qso ..=20 OP2 has about the same limitation as WSPR , OP4 is 3 dB = lower =20 Tnx, nice to be able to receive signals coming the other way = after all this time hihi 73 G.. From: Beckmann, Gerhard=20 Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:31 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR Hello Graham,=20 that is simply remarkable. Same report from Joe, DF2JP in Opera and = WSPR within only some minutes time difference. WSPR: 21:08 DK6NI 0.478488 -23 0 JN59ln 0.1 DF2JP = JO31jg 351 304 =20 Opera: 21:19 477 DK6NI de DF2JP Op4 351 km -23 dB in Duesseldorf 73 de Gerhard =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Montag, 9. Juli 2012 09:56 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR Tnx Jan Yes , the data server is something that needs to be constructed , = but=20 upto now , no one is looking at this ... may be when the Op = beacon=20 is part of the new VHF fixed beacons , then someone will take = a=20 look ! , JR is only DSP ! There are searches and downloads that can be taken from the=20 PSK-Reporter system .... Im not sure as to what can be = extracted=20 .. something that needs to be investigated ? There are some major differences with wspr/Op Not all stations can Tx wspr on MF due to TX construction, = wspr =3D=20 fsk Op =3D on/off keying OP used average s/n measurements Hopefully more stations will monitor wspr + Opera , so that = all=20 stations are able to use beacons etc 73 -G. -------------------------------------------------- From: "pa3abk" Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 1:36 AM To: Subject: Re: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR > It was nice to see that Gerhard used both modes after each other. > > Opera: > 23:16 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 506 km -29 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w = + 40=20 > Meter En > 21:40 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 506 km -24 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w = + 40=20 > Meter En > > And WSPR: > 2318 -25 -0.3 0.478512 0 DK6NI JN59 20 > 2144 -20 -0.7 0.478513 0 DK6NI JN59 20 > > As you can see it's a benefit if you can run both progs from the same=20 > "carrier" frequency. > > I'm still more in favour for WSPR. > Opera is simple, it just starts it's beacon. > And if you have the same beacon interval as another you will never = "see"=20 > each other. > Reason I start the beacon manually, carefull looking at the interval = of=20 > other users. > WSPR has a random start clock so chances you will catch up is more = likely. > > When I'm transmitting Opera it gives me a "Marconi Poldhu" feeling, = WSPR=20 > is just 1 click "on" and after 2min click "off" :-) > WSPR data is nicely stored on the server, Opera is lost after 24hrs = unless=20 > a "cut & paste" action is done. > OK we are amateurs and there is no such thing as free meal. > > Jan/pa3abk > > > > > > On 9-7-2012 1:48, Graham wrote: >> Ok Gerhard >> The last wspr I have is 23-08 ? signal was dropping at that = time >> Was the beacon alternate ? >> Later in the week , I will try wspr/opera beacon on 500 , see = what=20 >> happens >> 2012-07-08 23:08 DK6NI 0.478499 -28 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 = 299 >> 2012-07-08 22:58 DK6NI 0.478499 -29 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 = 299 >> 2012-07-08 22:54 DK6NI 0.478499 -26 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 = 299 >> 2012-07-08 22:48 DK6NI 0.478496 -26 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 = 299 >> 2012-07-08 21:44 DK6NI 0.478501 -27 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 = 299 >> >> Opera , PA3ABK was 21-40 , then 23-16 ? >> * >> >> 23:16 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 314 mi -29 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + = 40=20 >> Meter En >> >> 21:40 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 314 mi -24 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + = 40=20 >> Meter En >> >> * >> 73 -G.. >> >> *From:* Beckmann, Gerhard >> *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2012 12:20 AM >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = >> *Subject:* LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR >> >> Hello Graham, >> >> worked both in Opera as well as in WSPR on 477, but you only = decoded=20 >> in WSPR-Mode for this. >> >> vy 73 de Gerhard / DK6NI >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *Von:*owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 >> =20 >> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *Im Auftrag von *Graham >> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 8. Juli 2012 23:45 >> *An:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = >> *Betreff:* LF: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR >> >> 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR RUNNING >> >> TILL ROUND 2330 GMT >> >> 73 - G.. >> > > > --=20 > pa3abk <-> dordrecht jo21it > >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01CD5E24.CC05ACD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR
Ok, Gerhard
 
Yes , similar,  but the  Opera   s/n  = level =20 is  calibrated  against the  path-sim   =20 software  and  reads  , we = think,  round =20 6  dB  higher
 
so  for  this  decode , Op =3D -23    = ,=20 wspr  should  give   -29 dB  ......   =
 
Op  gives the  average of  the  = transmission  ,=20 along the  time  line , so  in qsb , the  = average =20 signal  level  will  show lower , where  the =20 Peak  will  remain the  same  = , wspr  =20 gives  a  Peak  value , so  the  two =20 systems  always   give   differing   = values=20  
 
Opera  and  Ros  data  modes  use = the =20 same  average   levels , to  give  a  = 'path=20 usability'   figure
 
ROS-MF-2   will  function  down to -27 = dB   ,=20 so  any  levels  above this  could  be  = used =20 for  2  way  data  qso ..
 
OP2   has  about the  same  = limitation =20 as   WSPR  , OP4  is   3 dB  lower=20  
 
Tnx,  nice to  be  able to  receive =20 signals   coming  the  other  way  = after =20 all  this  time  hihi
 
73 G..

From: Beckmann, Gerhard =
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:31 PM
Subject: AW: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA = MONITOR

Hello=20 Graham,

   = that is simply=20 remarkable. Same report from Joe, DF2JP in = Opera and WSPR=20 within only = some minutes time difference.

WSPR: =20   21:08   = DK6NI  =20 0.478488   -23   0   JN59ln   = 0.1  =20 DF2JP   JO31jg   351  =20 304  =

Opera:   =20 21:19    477 = DK6NI de DF2JP=20 Op4 351 km -23=20 dB in=20 Duesseldorf

73 de=20 Gerhard

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

-----Urspr=FCngliche=20 Nachricht-----
Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im = Auftrag von Graham
Gesendet: Montag, 9. Juli 2012 09:56
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 477 WSPR + OPERA=20 MONITOR

Tnx = Jan

Yes , the  = data =20 server is  something  that  needs  to  be = constructed ,=20 but

upto  now = , no one =20 is  looking  at  this  ... may  be when = the  Op=20 beacon

is  part = of the =20 new   VHF  fixed  beacons  , then  = someone =20 will  take  a

look  ! , = JR is =20 only   DSP  !

There  are = searches =20 and  downloads  that  can be  taken  from the=20

PSK-Reporter  system =20 ....   Im not  sure  as  to  what  = can=20 be  extracted

.. = something  that =20 needs  to  be  investigated  ?

There  = are =20 some  major  differences  with  = wspr/Op

Not  = all =20 stations  can  Tx   wspr  on MF due to =20 TX   construction, wspr  =3D

fsk    Op =3D=20 on/off   keying

OP  = used =20 average   s/n  measurements

Hopefully  =20 more  stations  will   monitor   wspr +=20 Opera  , so  that  all

stations  = are  able=20 to  use  beacons etc

73 = -G.

--------------------------------------------------

From: "pa3abk"=20 <pa3abk@kpnmail.nl>

Sent: Monday, = July 09, 2012=20 1:36 AM

To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>

Subject: Re: = LF: AW: 477 =20 WSPR  + OPERA   MONITOR

> It was = nice to see that=20 Gerhard used both modes after each other.

>

> = Opera:

> = 23:16   =20 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 506 km -29 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + 40=20

> Meter = En

> = 21:40   =20 477 DK6NI de PA3ABK Op4 506 km -24 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + 40=20

> Meter = En

>

> And=20 WSPR:

> 2318 -25 = -0.3  =20 0.478512  0 DK6NI JN59 20

> 2144 -20 = -0.7  =20 0.478513  0 DK6NI JN59 20

>

> As you can = see it's a=20 benefit if you can run both progs from the same

> "carrier"=20 frequency.

>

> I'm still = more in favour=20 for WSPR.

> Opera is = simple, it just=20 starts it's beacon.

> And if you = have the same=20 beacon interval as another you will never "see"

> each=20 other.

> Reason I = start the beacon=20 manually, carefull looking at the interval of

> other=20 users.

> WSPR has a = random start=20 clock so chances you will catch up is more likely.

>

> When I'm = transmitting=20 Opera it gives me a "Marconi Poldhu" feeling, WSPR

> is = just  1 click "on"=20 and after 2min click "off" :-)

> WSPR data = is nicely stored=20 on the server, Opera is lost after 24hrs unless

> a "cut = & paste" action=20 is done.

> OK we are = amateurs and=20 there is no such thing as free meal.

>

>=20 Jan/pa3abk

>

>

>

>

>

> On = 9-7-2012 1:48, Graham=20 wrote:

>>  = Ok=20 Gerhard

>> The = last =20 wspr  I have  is  23-08 ?  signal  was =20 dropping  at that  time

>> Was = the =20 beacon   alternate  ?

>> Later = in the =20 week , I will  try wspr/opera  beacon on 500  , see what=20

>>=20 happens

>> = 2012-07-08 23:08 DK6NI=20 0.478499 -28 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 299

>>  = 2012-07-08 22:58=20 DK6NI 0.478499 -29 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 299

>>  = 2012-07-08 22:54=20 DK6NI 0.478499 -26 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 299

>>  = 2012-07-08 22:48=20 DK6NI 0.478496 -26 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 299

>>  = 2012-07-08 21:44=20 DK6NI 0.478501 -27 0 JN59ln 0.1 G0NBD IO83lk 1058 299

>>

>> Opera = ,  =20 PA3ABK    was  21-40  , then  23-16=20 ?

>> = *

>>

>> 23:16 = 477 DK6NI de=20 PA3ABK Op4 314 mi -29 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + 40

>> Meter=20 En

>>

>> 21:40 = 477 DK6NI de=20 PA3ABK Op4 314 mi -24 dB in Dordrecht with 0,1w + 40

>> Meter=20 En

>>

>> = *

>> 73=20 -G..

>>

>> = *From:* Beckmann,=20 Gerhard <mailto:beckmann.erlangen@fre= enet.de>

>> = *Sent:* Monday, July=20 09, 2012 12:20 AM

>> *To:*=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 <mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>

>> = *Subject:* LF: AW: 477=20 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR

>>

>> Hello=20 Graham,

>>

>>     worked both in Opera as = well as in=20 WSPR on 477, but you only decoded

>> in = WSPR-Mode for=20 this.

>>

>> vy 73 = de Gerhard /=20 DK6NI

>>

>>=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>

>>=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------<= /FONT>

>>

>>=20 *Von:*owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

>>=20 <mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>

>> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] = *Im Auftrag=20 von *Graham

>> = *Gesendet:* Sonntag,=20 8. Juli 2012 23:45

>> *An:*=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 <mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>

>> = *Betreff:* LF: 477=20 WSPR + OPERA MONITOR

>>

>> = 477  WSPR  +=20 OPERA   MONITOR RUNNING

>>

>> = TILL =20 ROUND    2330    GMT

>>

>> 73 = - =20 G..

>>

>

>

> -- =

> pa3abk = <-> dordrecht=20 jo21it

>

> =

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