Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B90E338000098; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SnSCe-000195-MA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:25:28 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SnSCd-00018w-KP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:25:27 +0100 Received: from smtpout5.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.80] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SnSCa-0007uk-OC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:25:26 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.14.145]) by mwinf5d63 with ME id XNRL1j00337mlhN03NRLbg; Sat, 07 Jul 2012 12:25:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3CE44BF90A554FC1B53C17FAC8C45D11@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB99CC@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <1SmrFA-199XcW0@fwd21.t-online.de>, <4FF5EB68.9040507@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003401cd5b53$29fea5a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <506F5913C8204ACF94C32C7997FF1F01@AGB> <18EDA97B55804092940864CAA40C8C50@lindavideo> <4FF74F3F.1030804@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003401cd5c23$6e9c24f0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <003401cd5c23$6e9c24f0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:25:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Even a Nuvistor or miniature wired in valve only 5mm x 15 mm , ARC52 was full of them G. From: mal hamilton Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 10:32 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.80 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: be3724e8c8b62d82326d2a8f5e2c01ea Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD5C33.314279A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:490817472:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40864ff80ed37d44 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD5C33.314279A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even a Nuvistor or miniature wired in valve only 5mm x 15 mm , = ARC52 was full of them=20 G. From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 10:32 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Stefan es co Try permability osc tuning like Collins use instead of variable = condensers, maybe even a valve osc. de g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 8:49 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Hello Ken, The thing is, i want to have a very small VFO that consumes almost no = power (say < 50 mA at 12V DC). Also i have a f divide by 4 PA and would = like to have a VFO that shows the frequency from 472...479 kHz, without = the need to divide by 4 in my mind. I like to learn about simple analog = oscillators by building them by myselfe, not using the VFO of a ready to = use HF TRX. Furthermore it is no necessity for me (as an individual) to do things = that are up to date. Otherwise i would have to decide to stop with the = old fashioned amateur radio hobby and do things that "all" men in my age = (have to) do: Working as much as possible to earn as much money as = possible to consume as many useless things as possible, marrying, = building a house, driving an expensive car (not older than 5 years of = course), leaving the house in the morning in darkness to go to work and = coming home again in darkness, AND: Saying " I have no time because of = my job" and later "I have no time because of the grandchildren" or "My = XYL said i have to...". :-) No, i prefer to build a simple Oscillator and i'm happy when it starts = to oscillate after a few hourse after starting the project. I like the = helpful comments from others and like to see the ongoing optimisation of = that VFO. This will not take 6 months but maybe rather 6 days (say 4 = hours per day) and this work is fun. Lastly i am glad to come on the = band with my MF station. It is the same with my PA and the complete LF = stuff that seems to work pretty well, obviously. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 06.07.2012 19:19, schrieb Ken:=20 Dear all. I have been following this thread from the start, and thought why = build an Analog Oscillator when you most likely have a good one already = i.e. my old FT707, if I tune from 3.776MHz to 3.832MHz, reduce the power = into a 50 ohm dummy load, tap off some of the output into a divide by 8, = build two buffered 50 ohm outputs one to the tx the other to a frequency = counter. It may be Heath Robinson but it beats spending six months = trying to build a stable oscillator, also you can key the rig, ingenuity = and a soldering iron? Most of you will have an old transceiver which = includes top band so you need only divide by 4. As Mal would say that's = amateur radio at is best.=20 73s Ken M0KHW -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 06 July 2012 12:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Each to his own, but we would be giving questionable technical = advice, if building a LC vfo was put foreword as the preferred = path to 500 , Racal's barlow-wadley patent expired round 1970 and = was replaced with the digital - phase locked design in the ra1771/2 = , with 10 Hz stepping, round the same time ... Non of this is relevant now, with the DDS , plenty of good = ex-equipment 5 MHz standards about , that gives a 10:1 clock = over head , all that's needed is a 500 band pass filter and = output amp , If a CW tx is all that's needed , later use the DDS = as the conversion oscillator in a down converter .. OP QSO mode , good question , the phantom of the Opera works in = mysterious ways .. its missing at the moment from the latest = version , keep the old version for later in the year !=20 73 -G.. From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:41 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Graham Getting One's Oscillator started seems to be the problem at present. = Perhaps a transverter is the answer. What has happened to Opera QSO mode. I do not get any replies, = others seem to favour Beacon mode. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators I would say the most useful thing to make would be a linear = transmit HF > 500 convertor .. then all modes are possible , = this is not 137 , ultra stable long qrss will not work , due to = the short qsb and varying skip distance, this can be observed in = qso or beacon mode , propagation will fail before the call is = sent ! G..=20 From: Hans-Albrecht Haffa=20 Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:16 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Dear Stefan, building stable oscillators was a topic in the eighties, and it = depeded all on getting stable components. Later developing OMs reported, = that the oscillator for the qrp-TRX was the most difficult and time = consuming part in development. My recomendation: Buy aready built up = DDS-oscillator, available at Funkamateur.de (herre with IQ-sigs) or = ELV-Elektronik. It is stable, shows little noise on LF/MF. Must just = be built into a enclosure. It is a time saving solution. But: DFCW is = not possible, and a keyed frequency divider must be added; I divide by = factor ten with CMOS-ICs. More details on request.=20 55, Hans-Albrecht, DK 8 ND Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Juli 2012 um 21:30 Uhr Von: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators=20 Hello Ha-Jo, Can you pull one of the xtals to cover the whole band? 73, Stefan Am 05.07.2012 20:57, schrieb hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de: > Dear all, > > the only parts I have bought so far for MF (still beeing engaged = in > other developments) are two crystals: 6,5536 MHz and 7,0200 MHz, = to be > mixed with each other. The mixer is another bipolar transistor, = and its > emitter current is being keyed. A final source follower after = the > low-pass filter will deliver the output to 50 ohms. > > The same solution I have also used on LF. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > >=20 > =20 Ihr WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail = App f=FCr iPhone und Android. =20 https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/ =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD5C33.314279A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Even a Nuvistor   or  miniature wired in=20 valve   only   5mm x 15 mm   , = ARC52  =20 was  full  of  them
 
G.

From: mal hamilton
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 10:32 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators

Stefan es co
Try permability osc tuning like Collins use = instead of=20 variable condensers, maybe even a valve osc.
de g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 = 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators

Hello Ken,

The thing is, i want to have a very = small VFO=20 that consumes almost no power (say < 50 mA at 12V DC). Also i have = a f=20 divide by 4 PA and would like to have a VFO that shows the frequency = from=20 472...479 kHz, without the need to divide by 4 in my mind. I like to = learn=20 about simple analog oscillators by building them by myselfe, not using = the VFO=20 of a ready to use HF TRX.
Furthermore it is no necessity for me (as = an=20 individual) to do things that are up to date. Otherwise i would have = to decide=20 to stop with the old fashioned amateur radio hobby and do things that = "all"=20 men in my age (have to) do: Working as much as possible to earn = as much=20 money as possible to consume as many useless things as possible, = marrying,=20 building a house, driving an expensive car (not older than 5 years of = course),=20 leaving the house in the morning in darkness to go to work and coming = home=20 again in darkness, AND: Saying " I have no time because of my job" and = later=20 "I have no time because of the grandchildren" or "My XYL said i have = to...".=20 :-)

No, i prefer to build a simple Oscillator and i'm happy = when it=20 starts to oscillate after a few hourse after starting the project. I = like the=20 helpful comments from others and like to see the ongoing optimisation = of that=20 VFO. This will not take 6 months but maybe rather 6 days (say 4 hours = per day)=20 and this work is fun. Lastly i am glad to come on the band with = my MF=20 station. It is the same with my PA and the complete LF stuff that = seems to=20 work pretty well, obviously.

73, Stefan/DK7FC


Am = 06.07.2012=20 19:19, schrieb Ken:=20

Dear=20 all.

I have = been=20 following this thread from the start, and thought why build an = Analog=20 Oscillator when you most likely have a good one already i.e. my old = FT707,=20 if I tune from 3.776MHz to 3.832MHz, reduce the power into a 50 ohm = dummy=20 load, tap off some of the output into a divide by 8, build two = buffered 50=20 ohm outputs one to the tx the other to a frequency counter. It may = be Heath=20 Robinson but it beats spending six months trying to build a stable=20 oscillator, also you can key the rig, ingenuity and a soldering = iron? Most=20 of you will have an old transceiver which includes top band so you = need only=20 divide by 4.  As Mal would say that=92s amateur radio at is = best.=20

73s

Ken    =20 M0KHW

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ]=20 On Behalf Of=20 Graham
Sent: 06=20 July 2012 12:04
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject: Re: Aw: Re: LF: RE: = Analog=20 oscillators

Each to his  own, but we  = would =20 be  giving  questionable technical  advice, = if =20 building  a  LC  vfo  was put foreword  as=20 the  preferred path to  500 , Racal's  = barlow-wadley =20 patent   expired round  1970 and  was =20 replaced  with  the digital - phase locked  design in = the  ra1771/2 , with  10 Hz  stepping, = round =20 the  same time ...

Non  of this is  relevant now, = with=20 the  DDS , plenty of  good   ex-equipment   = 5 =20 MHz   standards  about , that  gives a  = 10:1 =20 clock  over  head , all  that's needed is a  = 500 =20 band  pass  filter   and  output  amp = ,=20 If  a  CW  tx is  all that's  needed , = later =20 use the  DDS  as the  conversion  = oscillator  in=20 a  down  converter ..

OP QSO mode  , good =20 question , the  phantom of the  Opera works in=20 mysterious   ways  .. its  missing  at = the  moment  from the  latest version , keep = the =20 old  version  for  later  in the  year !=20

73 -G..

From: mal = hamilton=20

Sent:=20 Friday, July 06, 2012 9:41 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Subject: Re:=20 Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators

Graham

Getting One's = Oscillator started=20 seems to be the problem at present. Perhaps a transverter is the=20 answer.

What has happened to = Opera QSO=20 mode. I do not get any replies, others seem to favour Beacon=20 mode.

G3KEV

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Graham =

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:27 PM

Subject: Re:=20 Aw: Re: LF: RE: Analog = oscillators

I would  say  the most useful=20 thing  to  make  would  be a linear =20 transmit   HF > 500   convertor .. = then =20 all  modes are  possible ,  this  is not  = 137 ,=20 ultra stable  long qrss  will  not  work , due = to=20 the  short  qsb  and  varying   = skip =20 distance, this can be observed  in qso  or beacon  = mode ,=20 propagation  will  fail before the  call  = is =20 sent !

G.. 

From: Hans-Albrecht Haffa=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:16 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20

Subject: Aw:=20 Re: LF: RE: Analog=20 oscillators


Dear=20 Stefan,

building stable = oscillators=20 was a topic in the eighties, and it depeded all on getting stable=20 components. Later developing OMs reported, that the oscillator for = the=20 qrp-TRX was the most difficult and time consuming part in = development. My=20 recomendation: Buy aready built up DDS-oscillator, available at=20 Funkamateur.de  (herre with IQ-sigs) or ELV-Elektronik.  = It is=20 stable, shows  little noise on LF/MF. Must just be built into = a=20 enclosure.  It is a time saving solution. But: DFCW is not = possible,=20 and a keyed frequency divider  must be added; I divide by = factor ten=20 with CMOS-ICs.  More details on request.=20

55, Hans-Albrecht, = DK 8=20 ND

Gesendet: Donnerstag, = 05. Juli=20 2012 um 21:30 Uhr
Von: "Stefan = Sch=E4fer" <Stefan.Schaefer= @iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Betreff: Re: LF: RE: = Analog=20 oscillators

Hello=20 Ha-Jo,

Can you pull one of the xtals to cover the whole=20 band?

73, Stefan

Am 05.07.2012 20:57, schrieb hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online= .de:
>=20 Dear all,
>
> the only parts I have bought so far for = MF=20 (still beeing engaged in
> other developments) are two = crystals:=20 6,5536 MHz and 7,0200 MHz, to be
> mixed with each other. = The mixer=20 is another bipolar transistor, and its
> emitter current is = being=20 keyed. A final source follower after the
> low-pass filter = will=20 deliver the output to 50 ohms.
>
> The same solution I = have=20 also used on LF.
>
> 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB
>
>=20
>

  

Ihr=20 WEB.DE Postfach immer dabei: die kostenlose WEB.DE Mail App = f=FCr=20 iPhone und Android.   
https://produkte.web.de/freemail_mobile_startseite/<= O:P>

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