Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 62F723800008C; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1StSKc-00078c-EI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 00:46:30 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1StSKb-00078T-T1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 00:46:29 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1StSKZ-0005zM-VN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 00:46:28 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.16.57]) by mwinf5d38 with ME id dzmT1j0011DsCNS03zmTqc; Tue, 24 Jul 2012 01:46:27 +0200 Message-ID: <110FB3B6DA0440D0B3463CEF14066206@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <500DDCC7.9050705@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <500DDCC7.9050705@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 00:46:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: More likely to be a 'dip' in signals ? similar to a air/high altitude detonation ? and good for troposcatter modes unlike a detonation ! G. From: Stefan Schäfer Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Chaff and LF [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: ee37f4b261e58bbaf6a18fc5319c092e Subject: Re: LF: Chaff and LF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E1_01CD6935.C1C77570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:461475488:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f500de2800e2c X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E1_01CD6935.C1C77570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More likely to be a 'dip' in signals ? similar to a air/high = altitude detonation ? and good for troposcatter modes unlike a = detonation ! G. From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Chaff and LF Hi Laurence,=20 After reading your mail i took a look to VE7TIL's grabber. If there = would really be an effect on LF propagation then maybe ther would be = unexpected peaks on the DCF or DLF graph, but there are't. You may ask JA7NI to generate a key down signal on LF and run the = SpecLab plotter and search for peaks :-) Probably the air force will not announce the next test. But maybe you = have some good contacts, get the information and forward it to the = group, discretely :-) Hawaii. Are you often there? Place for a large directional LF antenna? = :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 23.07.2012 23:45, schrieb Laurence KL7UK:=20 One of the most interesting weather reports this week was from Hawaii = - when a radar image showed a broad swarth of radar returns some 15 = miles long and 1 mile wide gradually moving South with the prevailing = wind. I first thought it was a a weather gust front or rain squal but = the weather chappy says it was from the ongoing military exercises and = they had dropped a large amount of the chaff stuff (radar = sized/reflective) and it was causing the X band radar to show it in = detail.=20 =20 I was pondering - as I sat on the beach on Maui the next day whether = this form of chaff can actually produces anomolies below the frequency = engineered - as a lot of the new type of chaff has to cover a load of = GHz and MHz channelling - if the area is large enough, as this was, and = the drop density of reflective material is large enough whether it would = cause some effects as it appeared to be dropped from 30,000ft or = so...even down to LF...? =20 Another anomoly was seen this morning when I was returning from = Honolulu back to Anchorage - I was approx 1200 miles South of Anchorage = and a Blue glow started to appear - firstly I thought it was just a band = of Green/Blue Auroral light we get fairly often but as we got closer it = was the Notchtilucent clouds way way above us - banded, stripes and = globs of thin cloud being illuminated by the sun which was way below our = horizon and actually not even a pre glow. Now - this isnt a normal radio = thing either but on reading up on these clouds it appears they too are = radio reflective up to a point given the ions that attach to the = nulceous and given they appear to be sub-polar or polar, and mostly a = summer thing, when the temps are coldest at that altitude Im wondering = if some of the oddities we see on MF and HF are caused by these clouds = too... =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_01E1_01CD6935.C1C77570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
More likely  to be  a   'dip' in  =20 signals  ?  similar to a  air/high  altitude =20 detonation ? and  good  for  = troposcatter  =20 modes  unlike a  detonation !
 
G.

From: Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:22 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Chaff and LF

Hi Laurence,

After reading your mail i took a = look to=20 VE7TIL's grabber. If there would really be an effect on LF propagation = then=20 maybe ther would be unexpected peaks on the DCF or DLF graph, but there=20 are't.
You may ask JA7NI to generate a key down signal on LF and run = the=20 SpecLab plotter and search for peaks :-)
Probably the air force will = not=20 announce the next test. But maybe you have some good contacts, get the=20 information and forward it to the group, discretely :-)

Hawaii. = Are you=20 often there? Place for a large directional LF antenna? :-)

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC


Am 23.07.2012 23:45, schrieb Laurence KL7UK:=20

One of the most interesting weather reports this = week was=20 from Hawaii - when a radar image showed a broad swarth of radar = returns some=20 15 miles long and 1 mile wide gradually moving South with the = prevailing wind.=20 I first thought it was a a weather gust front or rain squal but the = weather=20 chappy says it was from the ongoing military exercises and they had = dropped a=20 large amount of the chaff stuff (radar sized/reflective) and it = was=20 causing the X band radar to show it in detail.
 
I was = pondering -=20 as I sat on the beach on Maui the next day whether this form of chaff = can=20 actually produces anomolies below the frequency engineered - as a lot = of the=20 new type of chaff has to cover a load of GHz and MHz channelling - if = the area=20 is large enough, as this was, and the drop density of reflective = material is=20 large enough whether it would cause some effects as it appeared to be = dropped=20 from 30,000ft or so...even down to LF...?
 
Another anomoly = was=20 seen this morning when I was returning from Honolulu back to Anchorage = - I was=20 approx 1200 miles South of Anchorage and a Blue glow started to appear = -=20 firstly I thought it was just a band of Green/Blue Auroral light we = get fairly=20 often but  as we got closer it was the Notchtilucent clouds way = way above=20 us - banded, stripes and globs of thin cloud being illuminated by the = sun=20 which was way below our horizon and actually not even a pre glow. Now = - this=20 isnt a normal radio thing either but on reading up on these clouds it = appears=20 they too are radio reflective up to a point given the ions that attach = to the=20 nulceous and given they appear to be sub-polar or polar, and mostly a = summer=20 thing, when the temps are coldest at that altitude Im wondering if = some of the=20 oddities we see on MF and HF are caused by these clouds=20 too...
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_01E1_01CD6935.C1C77570--