Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 750803800008E; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Spzyv-00043u-6g for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:53:49 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Spzyu-00043l-Lh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:53:48 +0100 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Spzys-00074l-OW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:53:47 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 14 Jul 2012 10:53:44 -0000 Received: from p5B394652.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [91.57.70.82] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 14 Jul 2012 12:53:44 +0200 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19UK5Ny96RUG+OsMl91gZA9NIWZWWLDRp5jniBSr6 cLiwJU4BpMl/57 Message-ID: <007c01cd61ae$ec423c60$1502a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <2EF69530CC694F89ADDC70851C979A5D@AGB> <015b01cd6139$b9f36a60$1502a8c0@Clemens04> <005a01cd6140$928d7e00$1502a8c0@Clemens04> <8026234358FA4AF3B57CC6EB31339FC3@AGB> <002101cd61a2$07c37a60$1502a8c0@Clemens04> <500142FB.7030107@xs4all.nl> <006c01cd61aa$b6cc4f70$1502a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 12:53:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3664 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: I squared the wrong number (15+15)^2. The correct rule is: If you have a certain number of carriers you have to multiply them by the *square of their number* to calculate the necessary PEP. E.g., if you have 4x15W carriers you need 15x 4^2 =240W, or with 10x15W carriers you need 15 x 10^2 = 1500W PEP. [...] Content analysis details: (2.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [213.165.64.22 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.2 TVD_SUBJ_ACC_NUM Subject has spammy looking monetary reference 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (cpaul[at]gmx.net) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 7ee575a0a6578bbbbe5ea7af32688fd5 Subject: Re: LF: Re: DUAL BEACON WSPR + OPERA 500Khz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01CD61BF.ADE9A230" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:418599520:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411750014ff61f3a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01CD61BF.ADE9A230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I squared the wrong number (15+15)^2. The correct rule is: If you have a certain number of carriers you have to multiply them by the *square of their number* to calculate the necessary PEP. E.g., if you have 4x15W carriers you need 15x 4^2 =240W, or with 10x15W carriers you need 15 x 10^2 = 1500W PEP. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Clemens Paul To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: DUAL BEACON WSPR + OPERA 500Khz Of course you're right,Albert. I did a wrong calculation,perhaps because it was before coffee. :-) 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: DUAL BEACON WSPR + OPERA 500Khz Clemens, To my knowledge the PEP of two tones (carriers) is only 6 dB higher than one tone. So a (real) linear amplifier suitable for delivering 60 - 100 watts output can deal with the two 15W carriers without any problem. 73, Albert PA0A Op 14-7-2012 11:21, Clemens Paul schreef: Graham, >the amplifiers will produce full power on 500 , but with the 50% efficiency , for single carrier modes , >its not very cost effective ! On the other hand,if you would use one single linear amp to TX two 15W carriers (tones in USB) it would have to be capable of delivering 900W(!) PEP to stay linear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5130 - Ausgabedatum: 13.07.2012 E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2195 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5130 - Ausgabedatum: 13.07.2012 ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01CD61BF.ADE9A230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I squared the wrong number = (15+15)^2.
The correct rule is:
If you have a certain number of = carriers you have=20 to multiply
them by the *square of their number* to = calculate=20 the necessary PEP.
E.g., if you have 4x15W carriers you = need 15x 4^2=20 =3D240W,
or with 10x15W carriers you need 15 x = 10^2 =3D 1500W=20 PEP.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Clemens = Paul
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 = 12:23=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: DUAL = BEACON WSPR +=20 OPERA 500Khz

Of course you're = right,Albert.
I did a wrong calculation,perhaps = because it was=20 before coffee. :-)
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Albert=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 = 11:59=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: DUAL = BEACON WSPR +=20 OPERA 500Khz

Clemens,

To my knowledge the PEP = of two=20 tones (carriers) is only 6 dB higher than one tone. So a (real) = linear=20 amplifier suitable for delivering 60 - 100 watts output can deal = with the=20 two 15W carriers without any problem.

73, Albert = PA0A

 =20  

Op 14-7-2012 11:21, Clemens Paul schreef:
Graham,
 
>the  amplifiers  will  produce full  = power on=20 500  , but  with the  50% efficiency , for =20 single  carrier  modes , >its not  very cost = effective !=20
 
On the other hand,if you would = use one single=20 linear amp  to TX two 15W carriers (tones in = USB)
it would have to be capable=20 of delivering 900W(!) PEP to stay linear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 


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Von AVG=20 =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:=20 2012.0.2195 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5130 - Ausgabedatum: 13.07.2012=20

E-Mail ist = virenfrei.
Von AVG=20 =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
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