Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 818BC38003090; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Su2Zp-0001he-AG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:28:37 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Su2Zo-0001hV-P8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:28:36 +0100 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Su2Zm-0005Bw-7w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:28:35 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAJsBEFBcF/3L/2dsb2JhbABFuWKBCIIbBQEBBQgBAQNJAiwBAQMFAgEDEQQBAQolFAEEGgYWCAYTCgECAgEBiAC7UYtNG4ZZA4gZhUGXfIJf X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,653,1336345200"; d="scan'208,217";a="394073701" Received: from host-92-23-253-203.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.23.253.203]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2012 15:28:32 +0100 Message-ID: <001701cd6a71$c05b73c0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <003001cd6a40$a9199650$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <500FEE4B.5030401@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:26:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: Stefan The reason that I work QSX ie listen on 7033 is because other countries DO NOT have a permit to transmitt on 500. also 500 Khz is a minority interest for radio amateurs throughout the world, very few are listening world wide. mal/g3kev [...] Content analysis details: (3.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [62.24.128.239 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 FSL_XM_419 Old OE version in X-Mailer only seen in 419 spam -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.4 FSL_UA FSL_UA 1.7 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 X-Scan-Signature: 3dad7246509e3b317974c9d84e795ac1 Subject: Re: LF: MF DOPOLE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CD6A71.871966D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:426102592:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb501007a85bfa X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CD6A71.871966D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan The reason that I work QSX ie listen on 7033 is because other countries = DO NOT have a permit to transmitt on 500.=20 also 500 Khz is a minority interest for radio amateurs throughout the = world, very few are listening world wide. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: MF DOPOLE Am 25.07.2012 10:37, schrieb mal hamilton:=20 MF I tried a full size Horizontal dipole up at 12 metres high for 160 = metres some years back and it was NO GOOD for DX long haul Maybe not for DX but it would be OK for many people to cover a range = of 1000km! In /p with QRP power levels there is no DX to be expected = anyway.=20 Will be interesting to see if there are significant QSB effects = compared to a vertical. But this will be very hard to interprete... On 160m i used a 130m lazy loop in 8m height and worked the US in a CW = contest, running 600W. The main lobe may show to 90 deg but anyway = something is radiated at low angles. Transmitting, however it did work well on Receive=20 I was able to receive East coast USA stations at good strength both = on CW es SSB but they had difficulty or could not hear me running 400 = Watts to the antenna. When I changed over to a 1/4 wave inv L with a vertical height of 20 = metres I was able to work every one that i could hear including ZL es VK = plus all the W stns as far as W6/7 es VE7 Because the dipole was so low the angle of radiation was too high = and the transmitted RF had fizzled out on long haul. Surely the dipole will not as good as a 30m inv-L. But just for fun, = on holidays or fielddays or for those who have no 30m inv-L (!) it may = be an alternative. And it is fascinating :-) Locally it was probably ok but this was not my aim. I have a 25 metre mast available at present and thought about an inv = V dipole for 600 metres as an experiment but it would be so low at this = frequency and exhibit high angle radiation that it would be useless for = long haul but probably very good around EU So maybe it would perform even better in EU QSOs, maybe with lower = QSB. How many MF QSOs (not the QSX 7033 kHz stuff) outside a range of = 3000 km have you done? 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CD6A71.871966D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stefan
The reason that I work QSX ie listen on 7033 is = because=20 other countries DO NOT have a permit to transmitt on 500.
also 500 Khz is a minority interest for radio = amateurs=20 throughout the world, very few are listening world wide.
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 = 1:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: MF = DOPOLE


Am 25.07.2012 10:37, schrieb mal hamilton:=20
MF
I tried a full size Horizontal dipole up at = 12 metres=20 high for 160 metres some years back and it was NO GOOD for DX long=20 haul

Maybe not for DX but it would be = OK for many=20 people to cover a range of 1000km! In /p with QRP power levels there = is no DX=20 to be expected anyway.
Will be interesting to see if there are = significant=20 QSB effects compared to a vertical. But this will be very hard to=20 interprete...

On 160m i used a 130m lazy loop in 8m height and = worked=20 the US in a CW contest, running 600W. The main lobe may show to 90 deg = but=20 anyway something is radiated at low angles.

Transmitting, however it did work well on = Receive=20
I was able to receive East coast USA = stations at good=20 strength both on CW es SSB but they had difficulty or could not hear = me  running 400 Watts to the antenna.
When I changed over to a 1/4 wave inv L with = a=20 vertical height of 20 metres I was able to work every one that i = could hear=20 including ZL es VK plus all the W stns as far as W6/7 es = VE7
Because the dipole was so low the angle of = radiation=20 was too high and the transmitted RF had fizzled out on long=20 haul.
Surely the dipole will not as good as = a 30m=20 inv-L. But just for fun, on holidays or fielddays or for those who = have no 30m=20 inv-L (!) it may be an alternative. And it is fascinating :-)

Locally it was probably ok but this was not = my=20 aim.
I have a 25 metre mast available at present = and=20 thought about an inv V dipole for 600 metres as an experiment but it = would=20 be so low at this frequency and exhibit high angle radiation that it = would=20 be useless for long haul but probably very good around=20 EU
So maybe it would perform even better in = EU QSOs,=20 maybe with lower QSB. How many MF QSOs (not the QSX 7033 kHz stuff) = outside a=20 range of 3000 km have you done?

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
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