Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 25BAC380000A2; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 05:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Sbpff-0002RA-Ae for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:03:23 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Sbpfe-0002R1-MA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:03:22 +0100 Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Sbpfc-0001JY-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:03:21 +0100 Received: by obfk16 with SMTP id k16so20448379obf.16 for ; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 02:03:17 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=googlemail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LmTsCRf7Mb0LRr7eHx2pgVF/21tU7Y08R3fKBWcfrkM=; b=p9HXlULMCg/KodI1vclQfH37mvbMv0LgsJDy3fCggLjjnlFfwhzZGqtzrFASijfwnW Yt/NZ9jyT36YAr77N5Fke8xpTO36JS+b+1UNDMhSRH83zve3K3WtdlXBLbHJBOIcFSU3 fF9dNX+fntD9Dr1t2B9nw6pAVLj9WGS2KB2AOMlzf5BDvOOeIv+3rQnPGyzZKh2p4Ket IjLkmIGe3Q/91Cw5Jl8b+47Dy5dodmH3khTaG+FF3xCkO2s3xD4jo0NzYSACbekVTlWc ffYCUKckFl/xZmqT9uYyhnFSJWEMjHnFvgL45/hfnfkOifbLa8NFxM2RWShd8e6jv7aH Y2og== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.25.164 with SMTP id d4mr14968766oeg.26.1338886997568; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 02:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.8.68 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 02:03:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FCCD2B9.1030408@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4FCB96A9.4010009@usa.net> <4FCB9F34.7040604@legal-medicine.de> <4FCBCC8B.9050308@usa.net> <77A08BCA-E9AB-404B-B425-BFD3564F66FE@thelortons.co.uk> <517B3527-8D27-4E07-853D-653F9AF3E025@thelortons.co.uk> <4FCCCB31.4080201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4FCCD2B9.1030408@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: From: John Gould To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Stefan, Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported before. Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes both ways. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.214.171 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (johngould88[at]googlemail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (johngould88[at]googlemail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 7a302ec14fb4a62f16f049454b6dc54d Subject: Re: LF: Re: Black Sheep Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c1d6e26dd604c1b5eb46 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:506389376:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m410.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4fcdcba66683 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --e89a8ff1c1d6e26dd604c1b5eb46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported before. Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes both ways. I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one as it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take away a facility that a few people use really effectively. I have to admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of amateur radio. I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the additional facilities. Short-term information of this sort isn't wanted by everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so having two lists for the different functions has some logic. Stefan, I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some clarity will come when the emotion runs its course. 73 John, G3WKL On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > ** > Hello John, > > Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the confirmation to > be on the list (only the email list!) and also got new messages from the > yahoo list. But the poll area was still blanked and appeared in the > "members only" section. So no chance. I unsubscribed again... > > Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not so > fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part of the LF > group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may be to complex fo= r > a fraction of those and so they have no real chance to vote. So their > opinion will be ignored! > > Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not only me > who wants to stay here. The LF community here is a small group, although = we > are spread all over the world. If the pro-blacksheep party (in a fair pol= l) > would be only 20%, would you shut them down? > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > Am 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould: > > Stefan, > > I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a yahoo > account. I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail account and that > worked OK, so you should be able to join the RSGB_LF_Group with your > Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the membership to be authorised by on= e > of the moderators, vote and then un-subscribe. > > I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a poll on > the other group that everyone can see who voted and how they voted. > > 73 John, G3WKL > > On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Sch=E4fer < > Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote: > >> Hi Clive, LF, >> >> For those who simply subscribed to the list but without having a yahoo >> account it is not possible to vote! This situation is advantaging the >> pro-yahoo party. Please remind those who are blind for such facts that >> there are further members (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate i= n >> this process. >> >> My vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group compromise. >> As long as the two groups are not treated like competitors, where one ha= s >> to win and the other will be shut down after some time. >> >> 73, Stefan/DK7FC >> >> Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive Lorton: >> >>> If you have voted it is possible to change your vote before the voting >>> period ends. >>> >>> >> >> > --e89a8ff1c1d6e26dd604c1b5eb46 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stefan,

Sorry that you weren't able t= o vote - very odd - not had that reported before.

= Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't v= ote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes b= oth ways. =A0

I don't really want to administer two groups, espec= ially this one as it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to e= ffectively take away a facility that a few people use really effectively. = =A0I have to admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and m= oreso the poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the= ethos of amateur radio.

I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list c= ould be used for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the m= ore technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the additio= nal facilities. =A0Short-term information of this sort isn't wanted by = everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so having two= lists for the different functions has some logic.

Stefan, =A0I'll try and do the right thing - hopefu= lly, some clarity will come when the emotion runs its course. =A0

73 John, G3WKL
On 4 June 2012= 16:22, Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heid= elberg.de> wrote:
=20 =20
Hello John,

Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the confirmation to be on the list (only the email list!) and also got new messages from the yahoo list. But the poll area was still blanked and appeared in the "members only" section. So no chance. I unsubscribed again...

Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not so fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may be to complex for a fraction of those and so they have no real chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored!

Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not only me who wants to stay here. The LF community here is a small group, although we are spread all over the world. If the pro-blacksheep party (in a fair poll) would be only 20%, would you shut them down?

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould:
Stefan,

I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a yahoo account. =A0I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail account and that worked OK, so you should be able to join the RSGB_LF_Group with your Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the membership to be authorised by one of the moderators, vote and then un-subscribe. =A0

I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a poll on the other group that everyone can see who voted and how they voted. =A0

73 John, G3WKL

On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
Hi Clive, LF,

For those who simply subscribed to the list but without having a yahoo account it is not possible to vote! This situation is advantaging the pro-yahoo party. Please remind those who are blind for such facts that there are further members (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate in this process.

My vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group compromise. As long as the two groups are not treated like competitors, where one has to win and the other will be shut down after some time.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive Lorton:
If you have voted it is possible to change your vote before the voting period ends.
=A0



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