Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DB577380000A6; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 03:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SkVxe-00015k-AT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:49:50 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SkVxd-00015b-DQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:49:49 +0100 Received: from rhcavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.130] helo=cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SkVxY-0002Tg-FR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:49:48 +0100 X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-ID: D86041280B8.A5D01 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Received: from icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (icts-p-smtps-1e.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.33]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86041280B8 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB3.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub3.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D368E404B for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:49:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::312b:f3bc:9c4:4ebb]) by ICTS-S-HUB3.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::a470:76b3:406d:2b1a%27]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:49:40 +0200 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Thread-Index: AQHNVLVvT1lBO+I1rUqNFPjXeBH7jZcPRkhY///6WgCAAAa1AIAAAZwAgAALNoCAAAajgIAAZnWAgAAvG4CAAPcTjQ== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:49:40 +0000 Message-ID: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB71D7@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> References: <4FEB8A2F.3030504@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB65D1@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <82ECFF6D94B94BED9D93B5580549A409@Extensa> <1340872602.49196.YahooMailNeo@web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <4FEC18F4.9050608@online.fr> <1340875355.96079.YahooMailNeo@web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1340876781.29716.YahooMailNeo@web171601.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <4FEC7DDF.8050906@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>,<1340908899.62897.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340908899.62897.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.13.13] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 134.58.240.130 (rhcavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be) used invalid HELO/EHLO cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be - verification failed X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hello Pete, I assume that the more exotic parts are the power FET (IRFZ48N) and the driver IC (ICL7667). The IRFZ48N is a 55V / 64A / 0.014 Ohm device. For a first try you could replace it by far more common IRF460 that is 100V / 28A / 0.06 Ohm. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [134.58.240.130 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 4c1b3a9525cea91d9a699b8982ee892f Subject: RE: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB71D7ICTSSMBX5lunaku_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:499386912:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40814fed5e5a2bb4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB71D7ICTSSMBX5lunaku_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Pete, I assume that the more exotic parts are the power FET (IRFZ48N) and the dri= ver IC (ICL7667). The IRFZ48N is a 55V / 64A / 0.014 Ohm device. For a first try you could re= place it by far more common IRF460 that is 100V / 28A / 0.06 Ohm. A bit of reverse engineering: Stefan states 50W output at 80% efficiency = =3D 62.5W input =3D 5.2A at 12V. So with a 28A device you are on the safe side. The larger Ron (0.06 Ohm vs 0.014 Ohm) will (in theory) reduce the efficien= cy. But 5.2A in 0.014 Ohm is only about 0.4W loss (for a IRFZ48N). For a IR= F460 it is 5.2A in 0.06 Ohm =3D 1.6W loss. So the losses (12.5W) are probably more due to the non perfect switching th= an due to the Ron of the FETs. An alternative for the ICL7667 is a TC4426 or a homebrew driver (see http:/= /www.pa3bca.nl/images/stories/500KHz/500khz_transverter_full.gif). 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: donderdag 28 juni 2012 20:41 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Hi Stefan I like this and would like to make to make it. I so far have tracked down m= ost bits but as usual the Unobtainium of so many construction projects that= fall at the last hurdle unless they are Kits........ no chance of that I s= uppose? There will be those who tell me its easy to get the bits but unless you wor= k for a company that uses this stuff it can not be slipped through the "Pur= chasing" it becomes a positive stop!! Like the Litz I just put that in one of our big outfits with min orders and= it said it had over one hundred thousand Litz and promptly collapsed. But = they have one of the toroids (T1) wow and its not a min order either double= wow! Litz can be fabricated from 0.125 Cu/En? Hmm it's plaited ? Wima caps are available from Maplin haven't checked in depth but they usual= ly are. I like the idea of using a DDS or Transceiver as a master osc source div. b= y four. Generally I buy my power FETs by the hand full off E-bay they may not be id= eal but are cheap!! 50P (eer 60Ec) (Never mind the quality but feel the wid= th... principle) and the drivers TC range for slightly more. I'll keep searching for a bit but if anyone has a kitting list (UK source) = may be they could publish it? And thanks Stefan nothing under the Sun is "New" but in context it is new a= nd worth while thanks! 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Stefan Sch=E4fer To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 16:53 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Hi MF, Late at night, i made draw the schematic. Here it is: https://dl.dropbox.co= m/u/19882028/MF/100W%20475kHz%20PA.png (picture of prototype https://dl.dr= opbox.com/u/19882028/MF/DK7FC%20472%20kHz%20PA%2015W%2B100W.JPG) Most of the parts are not critical. The ferrite cores are the blue EPCOS types, N30 material. Details are in th= e image. But you may use a FT140-77 alternatively and double the primary an= d secondary number of turns. There are many alternatives, also to the FETs. Instead of the IRZF48N you m= ay try a IRF1405. This one has a lower on-resistance but a higher input cap= acity. Maybe it works even better, i didn't try to many parts. Switching ti= mes are not critical. So you need to find a compromise between low on resis= tance and input capacity while the Drain-Source voltage should be 55V for a= 12V supply. Instead of RF litz wire (i use this one: http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?= ACTION=3D3;ARTICLE=3D57206;SEARCH=3DCLI%20200%2F30 ) you can also use 1mm d= iam. enamel. Cu wire or better 5x0.4mm or what you have. It just affects th= e efficiency, more or less. The overall dimensions of this prototype are 15cm x 10cm x 3cm, so it is qu= ite compact and since it runs from a 12V battery you can use it for /p test= s. Also you can of course use more than 2 power steps by using a multi step= switch and more taps. A DDS signal generator with rectangular wave form or a sine signal coming f= rom a HF TX may be used. The waveform doesn't matter as long as the peak in= put voltage exceeds 5 Vp. 73, Stefan/DK7FC PS: Yes, it is nothing new and someone has done it before! Am 28.06.2012 11:46, schrieb M0FMT: Hi again Stefan The Litz is too, only by the Km or 10Kg reel.......... :@(( Do you create your own I have 0.125 solid C/E guess that could be stranded = up to make a synth? 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: M0FMT mailto:m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk To: mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 10:22 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Hi Stefan http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IRFZ24N-Transistor-x-1-pieces-IRFZ24-/16081825349= 6?pt=3DUK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=3Ditem257183ceb8 Just over =A35 a pop! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ICL7667CPA-MAXIM-IC-DRIVER-MOSFET-DUAL-PWR-8-= DIP-1-PIECE-B7-/160779362423?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=3Ditem256f326077 Just over =A36 a pop! But what is the =93Unobtainium=94 ferrite? =85=85 ;0) Chees Pete FMT From: Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 mailto:jpm.f1afj@online.fr To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 9:42 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Hello Stephan , Me too 73 , Jean-Pierre F1AFJ Le 28/06/2012 10:36, M0FMT a =E9crit : Hi Stephan Me Too 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: "PA1SDB, Peter" mailto:pa1sdb@amsat.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 9:12 Subject: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC like ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:35 AM Subject: LF: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC If someone is interested i may convert the circuit from my mind into a sche= matic as a png file. Always interested ;-) 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB71D7ICTSSMBX5lunaku_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Pete,<= /font>

 

I assume that the more exo= tic parts are the power FET (IRFZ48N)= and the driver IC (ICL7667).

The IRFZ48N is a 55V / 64A= / 0.014 Ohm device. For a first try&= nbsp;you could replace it b= y far more common IRF460 th= at is 100V / 28A / 0.06 Ohm.

A bit of reverse engineering: Stefan s= tates 50W output at 80% efficiency =3D 62.5W= input =3D 5.2A at 12V.

So with a&nb= sp;28A device you are on the saf= e side.

The larger Ron (0.06 Ohm vs 0.0= 14 Ohm) will (in theory) reduce the efficien= cy. But 5.2A in 0.014 Ohm is only = about 0.4W loss (for a IRFZ48N). For a&nbs= p;IRF460 it is 5.2A in 0.06 Ohm =3D 1.6W loss.

So the losses<= a> (12.5W) are probably more due to the = non perfect switching than due to the R= on of the FETs.

An alternative for the ICL7667 is a TC4426 or<= a> a homebrew driver (see http://www.pa3bca.nl/images/stories/500KHz/500khz_transv= erter_full.gif).

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 28 juni 2012 20:41
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

Hi Stefan
 
I like this and would like to make to make it. = I so far have tracked down most bits but as usual the Unobtainium of so many constr= uction projects that fall at the last hurdle unless they are Kits........ n= o chance of that I suppose?
 
There will be those who tell me its easy to get= the bits but unless you work for a company that uses this stuff it ca= n not be slipped through the "Purchasing" it becomes a posit= ive stop!!
Like the Litz I just put that in one of our big outfits with min orders and = it said it had over one hundred thousand Litz and promptly collapsed. But they have one of the toroids (T1) wow and its not a min order either double wow! Litz can be fabricated f= rom 0.125 Cu/En?  Hmm it's plaited ?
Wima caps are available from Maplin haven't checked in dep= th but they usually are.
 
I like the idea of using a DDS or Transceiver as a master osc source div. by four.
 
Generally I buy my power FETs by the hand full off E-bay they may not be ideal but are cheap!= ! 50P (eer 60Ec) (Never mind the quality but feel the wi= dth... principle) and the drivers TC range for slightly more.
 
I'll keep searching for a bit but if anyone has a kit= ting list (UK source) may be they could publish it? 
 
And thanks Stefan nothing under the Sun is "New&= quot; but in context it is new and worth while thanks!
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX<= br>
 
From: Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 201= 2, 16:53
Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 47= 2 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

Hi MF,

Late at night, i made draw the schematic. Here it is: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/100W%20475kHz%20PA.png  (pict= ure of prototype https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/DK7FC%20472%20kHz%20PA%2015W%2B100W.JP= G)

Most of the parts are not critical.

The ferrite cores are the blue EPCO= S types, N30 material. Details are in the image. But you may use a F= T140-77 alternatively and double the primary and secondary number of turns.=

There are many alternatives, also to the FETs. Instead of the IRZF48N you may try a IRF1405. This one has a lower on-resistance but a higher input capac= ity. Maybe it works even better, i didn't try to many parts. Switching time= s are not critical. So you need to find a compromise between low on resista= nce and input capacity while the Drain-Source voltage should be 55V for a 12V supply.

Instead of RF litz wire (i u= se this one: http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTION=3D3;ARTICLE=3D57206;SEARCH=3DCLI%2= 0200%2F30 ) you can also use 1mm diam. enamel. Cu wire or better 5x0.4m= m or what you have. It just affects the efficiency, more or less.

The overall dimensions of this prototype are 15cm x 10cm x 3cm, so it is qu= ite compact and since it runs from a 12V battery you can use it for /p test= s. Also you can of course use more than 2 power steps by using a multi step switch and more t= aps.

A DDS signal generator with rectangular wave form or a sine signal coming f= rom a HF TX may be used. The waveform doesn't matter as long as the peak in= put voltage exceeds 5 Vp.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

PS: Yes, it is nothing new and someone has done it before!






Am 28.06.2012 11:46, schrieb= M0FMT:
Hi again Stefan
 
The Litz is too, = only by the Km or 10Kg reel.......... :@((
 
Do you create your own I have 0.125 solid C/E guess that could be stra= nded up to make a synth?

 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO9= 1UX
From: M0FMT mailto:m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk
To: mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 201= 2, 10:22
Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 47= 2 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

Hi Stefan
Just over =A35 a pop!
Just over =A36 a pop!
But what is the =93Unobtainium=94 ferrite?   =85=85 ;0)
Ch= ees Pete FMT
   From: Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 = mailto:jpm.f1afj@online.fr
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 201= 2, 9:42
Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 47= 2 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

Hello Stephan ,
Me too
73  , Jean-Pierre F1AFJ 



Le 28/06/2012 10:36, M0FMT a =E9= crit :
Hi Stephan
 
Me Too

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: "PA1SDB, Peter" mailto:pa1sdb@amsat.org
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 201= 2, 9:12
Subject: LF: Re: RE: 472 kH= z PA running at 12 VDC

like
 
----- Original Message -----
From: = Rik Strobbe
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:35 A= M
Subject: LF: RE: 472 kHz PA running = at 12 VDC

If someone is in= terested i may convert the circuit from my mind&nb= sp;into a schematic as a png file.
 
Always interested ;-)
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T










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