Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BB3ED3800008D; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SkkfL-0004hr-QN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:31:55 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SkkfK-0004hi-Vi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:31:54 +0100 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SkkfI-0001Ta-6Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 00:31:53 +0100 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q5TNVoYE008320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:31:51 +0200 Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.206]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id q5TNVnk9017127 for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:31:50 +0200 Message-ID: <4FEE3A73.1090602@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 01:29:55 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4FEE0F7E.2090109@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <0F87F4C0AE524B1E9EA631C81D579573@gnat> In-Reply-To: <0F87F4C0AE524B1E9EA631C81D579573@gnat> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Alan, Mike, Claudio, Thanks for the help! Am 30.06.2012 00:08, schrieb Alan Melia: > Stefan if they are really that old then they mar be deterioration of > the elements. > Seems not to apply for the ones i have. :-) [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [129.206.100.212 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: f548c2e6c4e712c1eb3dcc8bf83f0d4f Subject: Re: LF: Re: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010909030502070500060606" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:508319424:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d4fee3b271408 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010909030502070500060606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id q5TNVoYE008320 Hi Alan, Mike, Claudio, Thanks for the help! Am 30.06.2012 00:08, schrieb Alan Melia: > Stefan if they are really that old then they mar be deterioration of=20 > the elements. > Seems not to apply for the ones i have. :-) See my results: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20Filter%201%20dB.png= =20 showing < -1 dB ripple now! Excellent and well suitable for a MF RX. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20Filter%2040%20dB.pn= g Arrangement:=20 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20filter%20Messung.JP= G Capacitive matching is very critical but the resistance may vary +-1=20 kOhm without dramatic changes... I plan to build that filter for a 50 Ohm system. That should allow to=20 use my IC706 in a future kite experiment on MF and use the TX antenna=20 for receiving too... 73, Stefan/DK7FC > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Stefan Sch=E4fer > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Friday, June 29, 2012 9:26 PM > *Subject:* LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters > > 4th try... > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters > Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200 > Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > MF, > > I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 4= 73 > kHz. It is available at > http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.htm= l > (scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured= the > frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the > impedances to be connected to the wires. > There is even a datasheet at > http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf > > All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very > sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very ve= ry > high. See the image: > https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%20473%20= kHz.png > > So what have i done wrong? Or is it that bad? > > The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and = green > wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and > green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green an= d red > wire, with a tap at the yellow wire. > Helpful was this image from the web > http://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg whic= h > shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to t= he > output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as > stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change. > > Any ideas or suggestions? > > Guess for what i will need the filter! :-) > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > =20 > --------------010909030502070500060606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id q5TNVoYE008320 Hi Alan, Mike, Claudio,

Thanks for the help!

Am 30.06.2012 00:08, schrieb Alan Melia:
Stefan if they are really that old then they mar be deterioration of the elements.

Seems not to apply for the ones i have. :-)

See my results:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/198= 82028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20Filter%201%20dB.png=A0=A0 showing < -1 dB ripple now! Excellent and well suitable for a MF RX. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19= 882028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20Filter%2040%20dB.png

Arrangement: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19= 882028/MF/473%20kHz%20ZF%20filter%20Messung.JPG

Capacitive matching is very critical but the resistance may vary +-1 kOhm without dramatic changes...

I plan to build that filter for a 50 Ohm system. That should allow to use my IC706 in a future kite experiment on MF and use the TX antenna for receiving too...

73, Stefan/DK7FC



=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:26 PM
Subject: LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters

4th try...

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betre= ff: Help needed, mechanical filters
Datum= : Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200
Von: = Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iup.uni-h= eidelberg.de>
An: <= /th> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g 


MF,

I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473=20
kHz. It is available at=20
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.htm=
l=20
(scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the=20
frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the=20
impedances to be connected to the wires.
There is even a datasheet at=20
htt=
p://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf

All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very=20
sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very=20
high. See the image:=20
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%20=
473%20kHz.png

So what have i done wrong?  Or is it that bad?

The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green=20
wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and=20
green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red=20
wire, with a tap at the yellow wire.
Helpful was this image from the web=20
h=
ttp://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which=20
shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the=20
output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as=20
stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Guess for what i will need the filter! :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC
--------------010909030502070500060606--