Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BE1C138000081; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 07:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SbsDK-00048C-HU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:46:18 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SbsDJ-00047q-KN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:46:17 +0100 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.210.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SbsDG-0001uU-1O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:46:16 +0100 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q55BkCEB007119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:46:13 +0200 Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.206]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id q55BkDSw028849 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:46:13 +0200 Message-ID: <4FCDF12A.2000803@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 13:44:42 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4FCB96A9.4010009@usa.net> <4FCB9F34.7040604@legal-medicine.de> <4FCBCC8B.9050308@usa.net> <77A08BCA-E9AB-404B-B425-BFD3564F66FE@thelortons.co.uk> <517B3527-8D27-4E07-853D-653F9AF3E025@thelortons.co.uk> <4FCCCB31.4080201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4FCCD2B9.1030408@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Dear John, Thank you for the understanding answer. Makes me a bit more optimistic that we can find a consensus. 73, GL, Stefan Am 05.06.2012 11:03, schrieb John Gould: > > Stefan, > > Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported > before. > > Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't > vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes > both ways. > > I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one as > it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take > away a facility that a few people use really effectively. I have to > admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the > poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of > amateur radio. > > I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used > for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more > technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the > additional facilities. Short-term information of this sort isn't > wanted by everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so > having two lists for the different functions has some logic. > > Stefan, I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some clarity > will come when the emotion runs its course. > > 73 John, G3WKL > On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Schäfer > > wrote: > > Hello John, > > Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the > confirmation to be on the list (only the email list!) and also got > new messages from the yahoo list. But the poll area was still > blanked and appeared in the "members only" section. So no chance. > I unsubscribed again... > > Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not > so fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part > of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may > be to complex for a fraction of those and so they have no real > chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored! > > Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not > [...] Content analysis details: (-2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [129.206.210.211 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 3f12a6171cff302119f724e64afab799 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Black Sheep Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060403090708040601090600" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:510228576:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ce4fcdf1b34b30 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060403090708040601090600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de id q55BkCEB007119 Dear John, Thank you for the understanding answer. Makes me a bit more optimistic=20 that we can find a consensus. 73, GL, Stefan Am 05.06.2012 11:03, schrieb John Gould: > > Stefan, > > Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported=20 > before. > > Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't=20 > vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes=20 > both ways. > > I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one as=20 > it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take=20 > away a facility that a few people use really effectively. I have to=20 > admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the=20 > poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of=20 > amateur radio. > > I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used=20 > for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more=20 > technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the=20 > additional facilities. Short-term information of this sort isn't=20 > wanted by everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so=20 > having two lists for the different functions has some logic. > > Stefan, I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some clarity=20 > will come when the emotion runs its course. > > 73 John, G3WKL > On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 > > wrote: > > Hello John, > > Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the > confirmation to be on the list (only the email list!) and also got > new messages from the yahoo list. But the poll area was still > blanked and appeared in the "members only" section. So no chance. > I unsubscribed again... > > Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not > so fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part > of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may > be to complex for a fraction of those and so they have no real > chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored! > > Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not > only me who wants to stay here. The LF community here is a small > group, although we are spread all over the world. If the > pro-blacksheep party (in a fair poll) would be only 20%, would you > shut them down? > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > Am 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould: >> Stefan, >> >> I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a yahoo >> account. I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail account >> and that worked OK, so you should be able to join the >> RSGB_LF_Group with your Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the >> membership to be authorised by one of the moderators, vote and >> then un-subscribe. >> >> I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a >> poll on the other group that everyone can see who voted and how >> they voted. >> >> 73 John, G3WKL >> >> On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi Clive, LF, >> >> For those who simply subscribed to the list but without >> having a yahoo account it is not possible to vote! This >> situation is advantaging the pro-yahoo party. Please remind >> those who are blind for such facts that there are further >> members (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate in this >> process. >> >> My vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group >> compromise. As long as the two groups are not treated like >> competitors, where one has to win and the other will be shut >> down after some time. >> >> 73, Stefan/DK7FC >> >> Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive Lorton: >> >> If you have voted it is possible to change your vote >> before the voting period ends. >> >> >> > --------------060403090708040601090600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John,

Thank you for the understanding answer. Makes me a bit more optimistic that we can find a consensus.
73, GL, Stefan

Am 05.06.2012 11:03, schrieb John Gould:

Stefan,

Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported before.

Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes both ways.  

I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one as it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take away a facility that a few people use really effectively.  I have to admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of amateur radio.

I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the additional facilities.  Short-term information of this sort isn't wanted by everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so having two lists for the different functions has some logic.

Stefan,  I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some clarity will come when the emotion runs its course.  

73 John, G3WKL
On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Schäfer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
Hello John,

Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the confirmation to be on the list (only the email list!) and also got new messages from the yahoo list. But the poll area was still blanked and appeared in the "members only" section. So no chance. I unsubscribed again...

Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not so fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may be to complex for a fraction of those and so they have no real chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored!

Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not only me who wants to stay here. The LF community here is a small group, although we are spread all over the world. If the pro-blacksheep party (in a fair poll) would be only 20%, would you shut them down?

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould:
Stefan,

I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a yahoo account.  I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail account and that worked OK, so you should be able to join the RSGB_LF_Group with your Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the membership to be authorised by one of the moderators, vote and then un-subscribe.  

I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a poll on the other group that everyone can see who voted and how they voted.  

73 John, G3WKL

On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Schäfer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
Hi Clive, LF,

For those who simply subscribed to the list but without having a yahoo account it is not possible to vote! This situation is advantaging the pro-yahoo party. Please remind those who are blind for such facts that there are further members (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate in this process.

My vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group compromise. As long as the two groups are not treated like competitors, where one has to win and the other will be shut down after some time.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive Lorton:
If you have voted it is possible to change your vote before the voting period ends.
 



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