Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A2DFF3800013E; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Skfa5-0002Wk-Dg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:06:09 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Skfa4-0002Wb-2t for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:06:08 +0100 Received: from nm19-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.92]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Skfa0-0006iG-6B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:06:06 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.56] by nm19.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2012 18:06:02 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.132] by tm9.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2012 18:06:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1037.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jun 2012 18:06:02 -0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=yahoo.co.uk Result=Good and Known Domain X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 211862.87575.bm@omp1037.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 22585 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2012 18:06:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1340993162; bh=L9rxbY+G6yP6T7UXLLYwzwr+vzSsT098Odmdx4nmmtY=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XSlfIPU4QIhgVJ9e3+mpOuDogP9ev/94YOgrlqHkZPmYsTMamllysS+/Eiytu6ShCA4hyPP/sHiHWDV+vZGvT9Z4A11HhSf432L4SEVK8kP85bi4sMWtCZWIfXfOGsouEu+vO6h0X/qswai4sE0OuLIhGQMIJWP3JPJpnJ1t0eg= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TkwAG8lwjFaih4dqEvpRcAc5M7/fm8kAabYN9Yf9dgbZZNdSdGJSG4UKk6OXGuKdy9yV0vwcPggxNVApriD3+ww7n/WN/xG27Z4ghnZ//HtmLW/TvTLOpU1Ofc91Gs5RW1DwDliEV5dcHhjt0B3Hi0ZathU+hGzF4Ogcpesymxg=; X-YMail-OSG: FPRNhpIVM1msMnWnWpWeQU.snntSvSZaAJIyrCP5co04fJD HP1flOIAjiKzLJ4BOrUB0VeUCwzbI.8MO_QULhRb0.6Vb0c9jmobd_JlGEJ9 zKPX6hoL4rindSqtKMjknFOBkkKlve3WgrUoMhJI7UQ9KqD.tsSzz88WCRgu nt.BD4UTI8JDMifYMyEeuDqnDRoighwIruOO06dm4FuoX2Ca849FsDCfrECI fcbS7FHEhV2cbk6NxQ6JTqyHlXERsFpl.LxX5Xay.LpGtuGkJgD2s3ASTUuK 41mMxogxAM4R8_hteZq1XjWaa14TXVcCXPkg51p0M.83vk_QyuCdy2zTR2DR 881hwUrAr1n42.kn45XZiLdu2PT83_UDChsP8CACMDtUkkz168qELS8wjswv VetMZfwXIcquLJpbBTg9DJN.YT1F8x8SFHbLrJYlU91jkvvKfgsg.QuHHuEL 51.SEyTEU57zYmVfE4.86ySJqc2CbUpB_C26Mlbh1KhbNus2fQNvmI4DUf_K 4MWtM5wvaoKbsb7ObcBw6LErVotfUosmPl.WM261U_ZGQwXmsEHnwKRSIf4P 5dw_yL9ESkKcJ.AnlMMvtt4HZveUTXHMsiXlGg0TlZQVK67Q274pZC5gGSLs LJPtALmQGQZOwDnAdLS5HS0aA0LyovNhhAyj063jeWL7fzLL6Wfhs1Jl.tcp g_ypd8du_8gysu82ZJ.Z2NieB09Vup230TbWeUTWwrUYRVVPsDBSja.lnnRh apEjvrrgOIRevhibI.tBtGD5yNRHrFuaBqXM1jdYpeiFZj8GkCrXAL5E0WXo cgzuqaVa64oawFb9gMd5CWNjjH_JPLMeNa5b9AtOvSuFF9cfqCMHvcVCTheV TkYq8IbH7Z_4phLvoWWDRSX3UE7hvW8ZNUQl59Q9hNvAjTRgP4pciLA604pB yE3HGwnPo5tFLWUxLkbPjWq0qAA1cXoFJjI52XLLn3s2Dx1BNoVaD9du9ybY CXfJdaaXx7ir9ek5lYqe5THYDaPPI5x4i2k_NhiiUmltJIPaYZomv7_Fs6.S 7fVJiEg-- Received: from [86.163.214.230] by web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:06:01 BST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 References: <4FEB8A2F.3030504@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB65D1@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <82ECFF6D94B94BED9D93B5580549A409@Extensa> <1340872602.49196.YahooMailNeo@web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <4FEC18F4.9050608@online.fr> <1340875355.96079.YahooMailNeo@web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1340876781.29716.YahooMailNeo@web171601.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <4FEC7DDF.8050906@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>,<1340908899.62897.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB71D7@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <1340969485.35762.YahooMailNeo@web171603.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <004a01cd55f8$1e6b47d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Message-ID: <1340993161.15959.YahooMailNeo@web171602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:06:01 +0100 (BST) From: M0FMT To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: <004a01cd55f8$1e6b47d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: OK Mal  Thanks for the info. It is reasuring. However I have just built the driver stage as per Rik's Transv. and get a nice square wave from very rippling input, into the gate an IRF540 (50P ea incl p&p China) single ended arangement looks ok on the scope at the drain. I have 14v from the PSU not measured current yet. I get 110VP-P across a 50 Ohm load I think thats about 30watt's. The master osc is a Square wave from a DDS..... So far so good. I have a gate type keyer as per Stefans arangement .... real mix and match eh?. Removed connector from dummy load and connected to coupling link on my tuner not checked the volts across this yet. Counter goes nuts....... think its overload then look at DDS display it is dim. The ant current indicator is good, not calibrated but can tell there is RF current (0.7A) there (but on what QRG?). Connect back on to the dummy load every thing is OK again counter OK DDS OK. I normally use Xtal control in my other rigs either div /8 or Xtal mixer with no problem.  So I am getting RF back into the DDS or its PSU when the ant is connected ...... sorry about tail of woe.  Think I will use a rig as the master osc (better screened) and divide by four like Stefan's hopfully it will not get RF into it, pitty won't be direct read out. Story so far will let you know the ending soon!!! Oh hoping for just over 100Watts with 24v PSU (25% FET max rating). [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [77.238.189.92 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (m0fmt[at]yahoo.co.uk) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 FSL_FREEMAIL_1 FSL_FREEMAIL_1 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 08757f49bceb24af7a81ea2a82227211 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1507048413-2069354455-1340993161=:15959" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:510215168:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m025.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4fedeee06c56 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --1507048413-2069354455-1340993161=:15959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Mal=0A=C2=A0=0AThanks for the info. It is reasuring. However I have just= built the driver stage as per Rik's Transv. and get a nice square wave fro= m=C2=A0very rippling input, into the gate an IRF540 (50P ea=C2=A0incl p&p C= hina) single ended arangement looks ok on the scope at the drain. I have 14= v from the PSU not measured current yet. I get 110VP-P across a 50 Ohm load= I think thats about 30watt's. The master osc is a Square wave from a DDS..= ... So far so good. I have a gate type keyer as per Stefans arangement ....= real mix and match eh?.=0ARemoved connector from dummy load and connected = to coupling link on my tuner not checked the volts across this yet. Counter= goes nuts....... think its overload then look at DDS display it is dim. Th= e ant current indicator is good, not calibrated but can tell there=C2=A0is= =C2=A0RF current (0.7A)=C2=A0there (but on what QRG?). Connect back on to t= he dummy load every thing is OK again counter OK DDS OK. I normally use Xta= l control in my other rigs either div /8 or Xtal mixer with no problem.=0A= =C2=A0=0ASo I am getting RF back into the DDS or its PSU when the ant is co= nnected ...... sorry about tail of woe.=0A=C2=A0=0AThink I will use a rig a= s the master osc (better screened) and divide by four like Stefan's hopfull= y it will not get RF into it, pitty won't be direct read out.=0AStory so fa= r will let you know the ending soon!!! Oh hoping for just over 100Watts wit= h 24v PSU (25% FET max rating).=0A=0A73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A=0A=0A>__= ______________________________=0A> From: mal hamilton =0A>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>Sent: Friday, 29 June 2012, 14:0= 7=0A>Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC=0A> =0A>=0A>=EF= =BB=BF =0A>Pete =0A>I find for a class E PA or class C with series resonant= =0Acct at frequency of interest you do not need a LPF. =0A>To resonate the= PA use an Air core inductor and fixed =0Acapicator ie for 500 Khz use 5nF = in series with 20uH inductor. Adjust inductor =0Aslightly up/down in value = to resonate at exact freq of interest. Use an old LOPT =0Acore 8 turns Prim= 24 turns Sec. The wire does not have to be Litz. Prim 2.5mm =0Aelec wire a= nd Sec 1mm. I have used both litz and elec wire and find no =0Adifference. = =0A>A couple of hours should build this type of =0ATX =0A>=0A>g3kev =0A>=C2= =A0 =0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: M0FMT =0A>>To: rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org =0A>>Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:31 =0AAM =0A>>S= ubject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Hi Ri= k =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>Many thanks for your very useful information. I hope oth= ers find this as well. =0A>>Yes I said in an earlier mail what the PA and = driver would cost from E-bay (my supplier of choice... :o)) but at least t= hey are obtainable. =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>The current hold are=C2=A0the Ferrite= s or the Iron Dust toriods. This is the usual problem because one black ir= on ring looks very much like another. Once you have it in your hands you c= an do a test. What I do is to put a few turns on an unknown core and measu= re the inductance then compare the results with the theoretical value obta= ined from a range of cores with the same dimensions using "Mini Core" SW.= =C2=A0At the moment I have a source for the T1 core but not the choke. And = surprisingly I can't find the T80-2s they were every where once upon a tim= e. Anyway I do have a variety of cores that will probably do for the O/P= =C2=A0filtre. One day I will find a design I=C2=A0 can kit perfectly. =0A>= >=C2=A0 =0A>>I like your transverter, I am getting torn between projects ri= ght now. Q6 / Q7 driver as you say can be reproduced for each FET gate che= aply in fact=C2=A0I have the parts! =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>I will now crawl into= my cave and start to build. Thanks to you and Stefan. =0A>>=0A>>73 es GL = Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>________________________________=0A>>From:= Rik Strobbe =0A>>To: "rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org" =0A>>Sent: Friday, 29 June 2012, 8= :49=0A>>Subject: RE: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC=0A>>=C2=A0 = =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Hello=C2=A0Pete, =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>I=C2=A0assume=C2=A0that t= he more=C2=A0exotic=C2=A0parts are the power=C2=A0FET (IRFZ48N) and the=C2= =A0driver IC (ICL7667). =0A>>The=C2=A0IRFZ48N is a=C2=A055V /=C2=A064A / 0= .014 Ohm device. For a=C2=A0first=C2=A0try=C2=A0you=C2=A0could=C2=A0replac= e=C2=A0it=C2=A0by=C2=A0far more=C2=A0common=C2=A0IRF460=C2=A0that is=C2=A01= 00V /=C2=A028A / 0.06 Ohm. =0A>>A bit of=C2=A0reverse engineering: Stefan= =C2=A0states=C2=A050W output at 80% efficiency =3D=C2=A062.5W input =3D=C2= =A05.2A at 12V. =0A>>So=C2=A0with a=C2=A028A=C2=A0device=C2=A0you are=C2=A0= on the safe side. =0A>>The=C2=A0larger Ron (0.06 Ohm=C2=A0vs 0.014 Ohm)=C2= =A0will (in theory)=C2=A0reduce the efficiency.=C2=A0But=C2=A05.2A in 0.014= Ohm is=C2=A0only=C2=A0about=C2=A00.4W loss (for a IRFZ48N). For a=C2=A0IR= F460=C2=A0it is=C2=A05.2A in 0.06 Ohm =3D=C2=A01.6W loss. =0A>>So=C2=A0the= =C2=A0losses (12.5W) are=C2=A0probably more=C2=A0due to the non perfect=C2= =A0switching=C2=A0than=C2=A0due to the Ron of the FETs. =0A>>An=C2=A0altern= ative=C2=A0for the=C2=A0ICL7667 is a=C2=A0TC4426=C2=A0or a=C2=A0homebrew= =C2=A0driver (see http://www.pa3bca.nl/images/stories/500KHz/500khz_transve= rter_full.gif/images/stories/500KHz/500khz_transverter_full.gif). =0A>>=C2= =A0 =0A>>73, Rik=C2=A0=C2=A0ON7YD - OR7T =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>=0A>>___________= _____________________=0A>> =0A>>Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]=0A>>Ve= rzonden: donderdag 28 juni 2012 20:41=0A>>Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g=0A>>Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC=0A>>=0A>> = =0A>>Hi Stefan =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>I like this and would like to make to make = it. I so far have tracked down most bits but as usual the Unobtainium of s= o many construction projects that fall at the last hurdle unless they are = Kits........ no chance of that I suppose? =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>There will be t= hose who tell me its easy to get the bits=C2=A0but unless you work for a c= ompany that uses this stuff it can not be slipped through the "Purchasing"= =C2=A0it becomes a positive stop!! =0A>>Like the Litz I just put that in o= ne of our big outfits with min orders and it said it had over one hundred = thousand Litz and promptly collapsed. But they have one of the toroids (T1= ) wow and its not a min order either double wow! Litz can be fabricated fr= om 0.125 Cu/En?=C2=A0 Hmm it's plaited ? =0A>>Wima caps are available from= Maplin haven't checked in depth but they usually are. =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>I = like the idea of using a DDS or Transceiver as a master osc source div. by = four. =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>Generally=C2=A0I buy my power FETs by the hand full= off E-bay they may not be ideal but are cheap!! 50P (eer 60Ec) (Never min= d the quality but feel the width... principle)=C2=A0and the drivers TC ran= ge for slightly more. =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>I'll keep searching for a bit but i= f anyone has a kitting list (UK source) may be they could publish it?=C2= =A0 =0A>>=C2=A0 =0A>>And thanks Stefan nothing under the Sun is "New" but i= n context it is new and worth while thanks!=0A>> =0A>>73 es GL Pete M0FMT = IO91UX=0A>>=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>________________________________=0A>>From: Stefa= n Sch=C3=A4fer =0A>>To: rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org =0A>>Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 16:53=0A>>Subject: Re:= LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi MF, =0A>>=0A>>L= ate at night, i made draw the schematic. Here it is: https://dl.dropbox.com= /u/19882028/MF/100W%20475kHz%20PA.png=C2=A0 (picture of prototype https://= dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/DK7FC%20472%20kHz%20PA%2015W%2B100W.JPG)=0A>>= =0A>>Most =0A of the parts are not critical. =0A>>=0A>>The ferrite cores a= re the blue EPCOS types, N30 material. Details are in the image. But you m= ay use a FT140-77 alternatively and double the primary and secondary numbe= r of turns.=0A>>=0A>>There are many =0A alternatives, also to the FETs. In= stead of the IRZF48N you may try a IRF1405. This one has a lower on-resist= ance but a higher input capacity. Maybe it works even better, i didn't try= to many parts. Switching times are not critical. So you need to find a co= mpromise between low on resistance and input capacity while the Drain-Sour= ce voltage should be 55V for a 12V supply.=0A>>=0A>>Instead of RF litz wire= (i use this one: http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTION=3D3;ARTICLE=3D5= 7206;SEARCH=3DCLI%20200%2F30 ) you can also use 1mm diam. enamel. Cu wire o= r better 5x0.4mm or what you have. It just affects the efficiency, more or= less.=0A>>=0A>>The overall =0A dimensions of this prototype are 15cm x 10= cm x 3cm, so it is quite compact and =0A since it runs from a 12V battery = you can use it for /p tests. Also you can of =0A course use more than 2 po= wer steps by using a multi step switch and more taps.=0A>>=0A>>A =0A DDS s= ignal generator with rectangular wave form or a sine signal coming from a = =0A HF TX may be used. The waveform doesn't matter as long as the peak inp= ut =0A voltage exceeds 5 Vp.=0A>>=0A>>73, Stefan/DK7FC=0A>>=0A>>PS: Yes, i= t =0A is nothing new and someone has done it before!=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Am =0A 28.06.2012 11:46, schrieb M0FMT: =0A>>Hi again Stefa= n =0A>>>=C2=A0 =0A>>>The Litz is too, only by the Km or 10Kg reel.........= . :@(( =0A>>>=0A>>>Do you create your own I have 0.125 solid C/E guess that= could be stranded up to make a synth? =0A>>>=0A>>>=C2=A0 =0A>>>73 es GL P= ete M0FMT IO91UX=0A>>>=0A>>>From: M0FMT mailto:m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk=0A>>>To: m= ailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>= >>Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 10:22=0A>>>Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 k= Hz PA running at 12 VDC=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Hi Stefan =0A>>>http://www.ebay.co= .uk/itm/IRFZ24N-Transistor-x-1-pieces-IRFZ24-/160818253496?pt=3DUK_BOI_Elec= trical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=3Ditem257183ceb8 =0A>>>Just over =C2=A35= a pop! =0A>>>http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ICL7667CPA-MAXIM-IC-DRIVER-MOSF= ET-DUAL-PWR-8-DIP-1-PIECE-B7-/160779362423?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=3Di= tem256f326077 =0A>>>Just over =C2=A36 a pop! =0A>>>But what is the =E2=80= =9CUnobtainium=E2=80=9D ferrite?=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 ;0) =0A>>>= Chees Pete FMT =0A>>>=C2=A0=C2=A0 From: Jean-Pierre M=C3=A9r=C3=A9 mailto:j= pm.f1afj@online.fr=0A>>>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>>>Sent: Thursd= ay, 28 June 2012, 9:42=0A>>>Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running a= t 12 VDC=0A>>> =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Hello Stephan ,=0A>>>Me too =0A>>>73=C2=A0= , Jean-Pierre F1AFJ=C2=A0 =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Le 28/06/2012 10:3= 6, M0FMT a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:=0A>>> =0A>>>Hi Stephan =0A>>>>=0A>>>>Me Too= =0A>>>>=0A>>>> =0A>>>>73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From: "PA1SDB= , Peter" mailto:pa1sdb@amsat.org=0A>>>>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A= >>>>Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012, 9:12=0A>>>>Subject: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz= PA running at 12 VDC=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> =0A>>>>like =0A>>>>=0A>>>>----- = Original Message ----- =0A>>>>>From: Rik Strobbe =0A>>>>>To: rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org =0A>>>>>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 6:35 AM =0A>>>>>Su= bject: LF: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> =0A>>>>>If=C2= =A0someone is=C2=A0interested i=C2=A0may=C2=A0convert the circuit=C2=A0fr= om=C2=A0my=C2=A0mind=C2=A0into a schematic as a=C2=A0png file. =0A>>>>>=0A= >>>>>Always=C2=A0interested ;-) =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>73, Rik=C2=A0=C2=A0ON7YD - = OR7T=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>= > =0A>=0A> --1507048413-2069354455-1340993161=:15959 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK Mal
=
 
Thanks for the info. It is reasuri= ng. However I have just built the driver stage as per Rik's Transv. and get= a nice square wave from very rippling input, into the gate an IRF540 = (50P ea incl p&p China) single ended arangement looks= ok on the scope at the drain. I have 14v from the PSU not measured current= yet. I get 110VP-P across a 50 Ohm load I think thats about 30watt's. The = master osc is a Square wave from a DDS..... So far so good. I have a gate t= ype keyer as per Stefans arangement .... real mix and match eh?.
Removed connector from dummy load and connected to coupling li= nk on my tuner not checked the volts across this yet. Counter goes nuts....= ... think its overload then look at DDS display it is dim. The ant current indicator is good, not calibrated but can tell there is RF current (0.7A) there (but on what QRG?). Connect back = on to the dummy load every thing is OK again counter OK DDS OK. I normally = use Xtal control in my other rigs either div /8 or Xtal mixer with no probl= em.
 
So I am getting RF= back into the DDS or its PSU when the ant is connected ...... sorry about = tail of woe.
 
Think I w= ill use a rig as the master osc (better screened) and divide by four like S= tefan's hopfully it will not get RF into it, pitty won't be direct read out= .
Story so far will let you know the ending soo= n!!! Oh hoping for just over 100Watts with 24v PSU (25% FET max rating).
 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Sent: Frida= y, 29 June 2012, 14:07
Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC
<= br>
=EF=BB=BF=0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A
Pete
=0A
I find for a class= E PA or class C with series resonant =0Acct at frequency of interest you d= o not need a LPF.
=0A
To resonate the = PA use an Air core inductor and fixed =0Acapicator ie for 500 Khz use 5nF i= n series with 20uH inductor. Adjust inductor =0Aslightly up/down in value t= o resonate at exact freq of interest. Use an old LOPT =0Acore 8 turns Prim = 24 turns Sec. The wire does not have to be Litz. Prim 2.5mm =0Aelec wire an= d Sec 1mm. I have used both litz and elec wire and find no =0Adifference.
=0A
A couple of hours should build this= type of =0ATX
=0A
 
=0A
g3kev
=0A
 
=0A
=  
=0A
=0A
----- Original Message -----
=0A
From: =0A M0FMT
=0A =0A
Sent: = Friday, June 29, 2012 11:31 =0AAM
=0A
Subject: Re: = LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA =0A running at 12 VDC
=0A

=0A =
=0A
Hi Rik
=0A
 
=0A
Ma= ny thanks for your very useful information. I hope others find =0A this as= well.
=0A
Yes I said in an earlier mail what the P= A and driver would cost =0A from E-bay (my supplier of choice... :o)) but = at least they are =0A obtainable.
=0A
 = ;
=0A
The current hold are the Ferrites or the Iron D= ust toriods. =0A This is the usual problem because one black iron ring loo= ks very much like =0A another. Once you have it in your hands you can do a= test. What I do is to put =0A a few turns on an unknown core and measure = the inductance then compare the =0A results with the theoretical value obt= ained from a range of cores with the =0A same dimensions using "Mini Core"= SW. At the moment I have a sour= ce for the T1 core but not the choke. And surprisingly =0A I can't f= ind the T80-2s they were every where once upon a time. Anyway I do =0A hav= e a variety of cores that will probably do for the O/P filtre. One day= =0A I will find a design I  can kit perfectly.
=0A  
=0A
I like your transverter, I am get= ting torn between projects right =0A now. Q6 / Q7 driver as you say can be= reproduced for each FET gate cheaply in =0A fact I have the parts!
=0A
 
=0A
I will now crawl in= to my cave and start to build. Thanks to you and =0A Stefan.
=0A  
=0A
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A=
From: Rik =0A = Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" =0A <rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Friday, 29 June 2012, =0A 8:49
Subject: RE: LF: Re: RE: =0A 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC=
 

=0A =0A
=0A =0A=0A <= div>=0A
=0A
Hello Pete,
=0A
 
=0A I assume tha= t the more exotic parts are the =0A p= ower FET (IRFZ48N) and the driver IC = =0A (ICL7667).
=0A
The IRFZ48N is a = 55V / 64A / 0.014 Ohm =0A device. For a&nb= sp;first try you could replace = ;it by=  far =0A more common IRF460&= nbsp;that is 100V / 28A / 0.06 =0A Oh= m.
=0A
A bit of reverse =0A engineering: Stefan states 50W output at 80%= efficiency =3D 62.5W input =3D = ;5.2A at 12V.
=0A
So with= a 28A device you are on the safe side.
=0A
The larger Ron (0.06 =0A Ohm vs 0.014 Ohm) will (in theory) reduce<= /a> the efficiency. But 5.2A in 0.014 Ohm =0A is only about 0.4= W loss (for= a IRFZ48N). For a IRF460 it is&nb= sp;5.2A in 0.06 Ohm =3D 1.6W =0A loss.
=0A
So the&nb= sp;losses (12.5W) are probably =0A more&nb= sp;due to the non perfect switching<= a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow"> than due to the Ron of the FETs.
=0A
An alternative for th= e ICL7667 is =0A a TC4426 or =0A= a homebrew driver (see http://www.pa3bca.nl/images/stories/500KHz/= 500khz_transverter_full.gif/images/stories/500KHz/500khz_transverter_= full.gif).
=0A
 
= =0A
73, Rik  ON7YD - =0A OR7T
=0A <= div> 
=0A
=0A
=0A Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org =0A [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT =0A [m0fmt= @yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 28 juni 2012 =0A 20:41
= Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: =0A Re:= RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A =
Hi Stefan
=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
I like this and would like to m= ake to make it. I so =0A far have tracked down most bits but as usual the = Unobtainium<= /span> of so many construction projects =0A that fall at the last hurdle u= nless they are Kits........ no chance of that I =0A suppose?=
=0A
 
=0A
= There will be those who tell me its easy to get the = =0A bits but unless you work for a company that uses this stuff it ca= n not be =0A slipped through the "Purchasing" it becomes a positive s= top!! =0A
=0A
Like the Litz I = just put that in one of our big =0A outfits with min orders and it said it= had over one hundred thousand Litz and promptly =0A collapsed. But they have =0A one of the toroids (= T1) wow and its not a min order =0A either double wow! Litz can be fabricated from 0.125 =0A Cu/E= n?  Hmm= =0A it's plaited ?
=0A
Wima<= /span> caps are available from Maplin haven't checked =0A in depth but they usu= ally are.
=0A
 
=0A
I like the idea of using a DD= S or Transceiver a= s a master = osc source div. by =0A four.
=0A
 
=0A
Ge= nerally I buy my power FETs by the hand full =0A off E-bay they may not b= e ideal but are cheap!! 50P (eer 60Ec) (Never mind the =0A quality but feel the = width... principle) and the drivers TC range for =0A slightly more.
=0A
 
=0A
<= font size=3D"3">I'll keep searching for a bit but if anyone has a kitting = =0A list (UK source) may be they could publish it? 
=0A =
 
=0A
And tha= nks Stefan nothing under the Sun is "New" but in =0A context it is new and= worth while thanks!
=0A
73 es GL Pete M= 0FMT IO91UX=
=0A
=0A
=0A
  =0A
From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer =0A <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heid= elberg.de>
To: rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A
Sent= : Thursday, 28 June =0A 2012, 16:53
Subject: Re: LF: =0A Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running a= t 12 VDC

=0A
=0A
Hi MF, =0A
Late at night, i made draw the schematic. Here it is: https://dl.dro= pbox.com/u/19882028/MF/100W%20475kHz%20PA.png  =0A (picture of pr= ototype https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/DK7FC%20472%= 20kHz%20PA%2015W%2B100W.JPG)

Most =0A of the parts are not crit= ical.

The ferrite cores are the blue EPCOS types, N30 =0A material. De= tails are in the image. But you may use a FT140-77 alternatively =0A and d= ouble the primary and secondary number of turns.

There are many =0A = alternatives, also to the FETs. Instead of the IRZF48N you may try a =0A IRF1405. Thi= s =0A one has a lower on-resistance but a higher input capacity. Maybe it = works even =0A better, i didn't try to many parts. Switching times are not= critical. So you =0A need to find a compromise between low on resistance = and input capacity while =0A the Drain-Source voltage should be 55V for a = 12V supply.

Instead of RF =0A litz wire (i =0A use this one: http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTION=3D3;ARTICLE=3D57= 206;SEARCH=3DCLI%20200%2F30 =0A ) you can also use 1mm diam. enamel. C= u wire or better 5x0.4mm or what you =0A have. It just affects the efficie= ncy, more or less.

The overall =0A dimensions of this prototype are= 15cm x 10cm x 3cm, so it is quite compact and =0A since it runs from a 12= V battery you can use it for /p tests. Also you can of =0A course use more= than 2 power steps by using a multi step switch and more taps.

A =0A = DDS signal generator with rectangular wave form or a sine signal coming fr= om a =0A HF TX may be used. The waveform doesn't matter as long as the pea= k input =0A voltage exceeds 5 Vp.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

PS: Yes, it =0A is= nothing new and someone has done it before!






Am = =0A 28.06.2012 11:46, schrieb M0FMT: =0A
=0A =0A
Hi again Stefan
=0A
 
=0A The Litz is too, only by the Km or 10Kg =0A reel.......... :@((
=0A
 
=0A
Do you create your own I have = 0.125 solid C/E guess that could be =0A stranded up to make a synth?
= =0A

 
=0A
73 es GL =0A Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=0A =
=0A
=0A
From: M0FMT mailto:m0= fmt@yahoo.co.uk
To:= mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A
<= b>Sent: Thursday, 28 June =0A= 2012, 10:22
Subject: Re: =0A LF: Re: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

=0A =
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi Stefan
=0A =0A
Just over =C2=A35 a po= p!
=0A =0A
Just over = =C2=A36 a pop!
=0A
But what is the= =E2=80=9CU= nobtainium=E2=80=9D ferrite?   =0A =E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6 ;0)
=0A
=0A
Chees Pete= FMT
=0A
   From:<= /b> Jean-Pierre M=C3=A9r=C3=A9 mailto:jpm.f1afj@online.fr
= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A
Sent: Thursday, 28 June =0A 2012, 9:42
Subject: Re: LF: =0A Re: RE: 4= 72 kHz PA running at 12 VDC
=0A
=0A
=0A <= div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-siz= e: 12pt;">
=0A
=0A
Hello Stephan ,Me too
73  , Jean-Pierre F1AFJ  =0A



=0A =
Le 28/06/2012 10:36, M0FMT a = =0A =C3=A9crit :
=0A
=0A =
=0A Hi Stephan
= =0A
 
=0A
Me Too

=0A
7= 3 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: "PA1SDB, Peter" mailto:pa1sdb@amsat.org
<= span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A
Sent: Thursday, 28 June =0A 2012, 9:12
Subject: LF: =0A Re: RE: 47= 2 kHz PA running at 12 VDC

=0A
=0A =0A=0A
=0A
like
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
----- =0A Original Message ----- =
=0A
From: = =0A Rik Strobbe
=0A =0A
Sent: =0A Thursday, Ju= ne 28, 2012 6:35 AM
=0A
Subject: =0A L= F: RE: 472 kHz PA running at 12 VDC
=0A

=0A =
If someone is&nb= sp;interested =0A i may convert the =0A circuit&nbs= p;from my mind into a schematic as a png =0A fil= e.
=0A
 
=0A
Always interested ;-)
=0A  
=0A
73, Rik&nbs= p; ON7YD - =0A OR7T









=0A= =0A

=0A

<= /div> --1507048413-2069354455-1340993161=:15959--