Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 68DF6380000AC; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SewX5-0005cR-0h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:59:23 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SewX3-0005cI-Hv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:59:21 +0100 Received: from nm7.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SewWy-0006YP-S1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:59:20 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.56] by nm7.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2012 22:59:15 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.124] by tm9.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2012 22:59:15 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1033.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2012 22:59:15 -0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=yahoo.co.uk Result=Good and Known Domain X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 879304.97297.bm@omp1033.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 6750 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2012 22:59:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1339628355; bh=Lioa1DE9KXkDbXMeEw+axGCTjy3ppUmaMDDV7GdfWRs=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=reJMdpNGpKhD3rnQnkkLFC1QlYnHCkn1bml/0hJ5W2iMNZDfXTK5apG9t6V9DDghEMYTO7GrofboazFTyG5ZFHvyoDiCkjc8T8WF9WCKV3p+saMlPFOGlbf2/3ok3sO/Y5m2sITUBQftTdSHSF7RRMJ/sRDbRZuEr3v9s6IJjG4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TNvolQ5QandI/5i5QvxjSxTpjBUxtAUZqyPMQjPTr44dOCKoUg2NoHNz1riNA4lWmkxx7U+qr6e202tXgFrdleUIBB2soWFl77vJefScF/gl+uvv97i+jYJWRs+w0KESOUqLeM5stj+7/AGG2g5ncnEBjdiWQofOmxXNhel3M1A=; X-YMail-OSG: Wo9FQqwVM1mCzNY8LpAY_1Dd3W4UIXEg2GKEVOxs8.GaNAC MhzfSycYgexV2r4AkZXPKjNCjzq71JhnpS_khtbvuCadS5vR0Ufi.yH7EIhi O0BMVSdo7YneJeczEkDjnY472mhgPqFNPd_rXbpTcBKVnk7HOUpaZZ3LMzhn shRVq_8dtEI.2ENFCIuG3XIOSz6h534CZA0EyX2DuCfMnOfWQsHPfP1P8nGf r8jc9jz4UrVLd5EhEQQFmQiOvg1dFtCHow6fqPXvkKVQRQUgxIUGO6JJhLvY B02qBlp1qLY8ne432uNcEX7Rdrz_u9OtoPYXt2h9IpUzQcvCXHU_golbiUqC 8Qw1Vi5znP2oU2vP9Yhs6BrTVKQeDOKmJ_GhnhzhDMT7yKsJWMeA_AqG1R4R iXPgHNZRRT_RARN7P1tIEnwOYr8a_72rmNvmGY5PFImTd2Fslj5PN5oo2nKY jwlWIDAKQYliimVZIq0nZ7ckFUtMri82.sZ2JYLoa2v2i2PVKp2UgvhsgNwj Lx4LJK2WFH6RX.CmKYjbr_OEj_mzDt75yNDTbLbHXajg_FKcKt8mqOPUGgkA x04WJwjRvBEQeruov5_R53Ge42KdCETo0Dix9QtjnLF4I85evN_UsxgS2tEm joB5QIElpeGHhPpVeWmQAJA2RnK0sVXnsPd1YEjrbUv6XCalgXcVheG8giwo QX52PoUMFVQHcoqbs44PCutx1oQrSP1HVnfAc0EbF_EleTSR3r8hdvnFjKQQ 8uYrBE.yATn_Vw6ht3jshWMCbFJ5FmIsxXv2G5Vjul7cfJ8wdRYsWqiIMssO lsPiLEyqo Received: from [86.164.58.72] by web171601.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:59:15 BST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 References: <1339438549.67345.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <85F124CBD59C48FEB97567F3B69B2AC1@lindavideo> <1339499711.77638.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <006a01cd48cb$f2e1aed0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1339599103.18960.YahooMailNeo@web171605.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <4FD900B4.7020905@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <1339628355.5649.YahooMailNeo@web171601.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:59:15 +0100 (BST) From: M0FMT To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: <4FD900B4.7020905@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Stefan and Graham Thanks for the comments. None of my MF/LF tx.s run more that 160watts although by seriesing a couple of PSUs one with a floating ground I can run about 280Watts o/p from the TX. I don't like seriesing the PSUs so only do it during experimenting not on the air. Need to build a new high voltage PSU 100V at a good current rating. The rigs are FET PA IRF840 etc mostly xtal controlled or xtal mixer type master oscillator (but do have DDS), into a FET driver chip. And set them as described earlier. I have played with High power Audio amps on 136kc/s transforming the Low impedance to 50 ohms+/- using Ferrite cored transformer to drive the antenna tuner. Front end currently popped!! Using it for QRSS overnight.Will get it back on soon. My interest in Valve or Tube TX is a side issue and am not advocating them for serious modern MF/LF work. However there is no reason why not. I have made a couple of TUBE QRP rigs one for 160/80 about 4/5 watts out Choke modulated AM and CW and FSK. Worked most of UK on AM on 3.615megs. The second is a copy for 500kc/s was originally VFO controlled but now is again xtal mixer vxo. They use 6CL6 video tubes in the PA. The 500kc/s tube tx only runs a watt o/p yet to figure out why, it should be about 5watts. How ever on my new found Opera4 have been reported in PA0 land (on the limit). I have built and still got one or two 807 PAed rigs for 80m knocking about. Plus a Louis Varney design made by an unknown amateur in the 1950s and a Codar T5 and a push pull 807 rig on the stocks.... but probably won't get finished. Plus an FL2000B. This to show my thermionic credentials.... hee! For shear interest I would like to try and make a high efficiency TUBE PA but probably won't get around to it. But that 1960s RCA AM BC TX design looks interesting but probably very dodgy to set up, stability and all. Graham your arc tubes is all very well but what I have read is that they have a tendency to blow up...... and so do FETs ok so no change there then. My current limitation to power [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [77.238.189.21 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (m0fmt[at]yahoo.co.uk) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 FSL_FREEMAIL_2 FSL_FREEMAIL_2 0.0 FSL_FREEMAIL_1 FSL_FREEMAIL_1 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 62a9c62115051fd1c4d34daf6cda1a99 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Class E etc Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1613889061-985321963-1339628355=:5649" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:493979360:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m007.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41154fd91b7e1dcd X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ---1613889061-985321963-1339628355=:5649 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan and Graham=0A=A0=0AThanks for the comments. None of my MF/LF tx.s= run more that 160watts although by seriesing a couple of PSUs one with a f= loating ground I can run about 280Watts o/p from the TX. I don't like serie= sing the PSUs so only do it during experimenting not on the air. Need to bu= ild a new=A0high voltage PSU 100V at a good current rating.=A0The rigs are = FET PA IRF840 etc=A0mostly xtal controlled or xtal mixer type master oscill= ator (but do have DDS), into a FET driver chip. And set them as described e= arlier.=0A=A0=0AI have played with High power Audio amps on 136kc/s transfo= rming the Low impedance to 50 ohms+/- using Ferrite cored transformer to dr= ive the antenna tuner. Front end currently popped!! Using it for QRSS overn= ight.Will get it back on soon.=0A=A0=0AMy interest in Valve or Tube TX is a= side issue and am not advocating them for serious modern MF/LF work. Howev= er there is no reason why not.=0A=A0=0AI have made a couple of TUBE QRP rig= s one for 160/80 about 4/5 watts out Choke modulated AM and CW and FSK. Wor= ked most of UK on AM on 3.615megs. The second is a copy for 500kc/s was ori= ginally VFO controlled but now is again xtal mixer vxo. They use 6CL6 video= tubes in the PA. The 500kc/s tube tx only runs a watt o/p yet to figure ou= t why, it should be about 5watts. How=A0ever on my new found Opera4 have=A0= been reported in PA0 land (on the limit).=0AI have built and still got one = or two=A0807 PAed rigs for 80m knocking about. Plus a Louis Varney design m= ade by an unknown amateur in the 1950s and a Codar T5 and a push pull 807 r= ig on the stocks.... but probably won't get finished. Plus an FL2000B. This= to show my thermionic credentials.... hee!=0A=A0=0AFor shear interest I wo= uld like to try and make a high efficiency TUBE PA but probably won't get a= round to it. But that 1960s RCA AM BC TX design looks interesting but proba= bly very dodgy to set up, stability and all. Graham your arc tubes is all v= ery well but what I have read is that they have a tendency to blow up......= and so do FETs ok so no change there then.=0A=A0=0AMy current limitation t= o power Stefan is lack of a single stable PSU with a couple of KW output. T= he antenna is now reduce to 35ft up and 128ft top. =0A=A0=0AI don't have a = good RX for MF/LF what I have are deaf by others standards and this is my m= ain area of interest at the moment. I have used a TS50 and a TS690s full fi= lters=A0plus a couple of direct conversion HB=A0RX=A0with active filers and= notch.=0AFront ends have gone from dual gate mosfet to straight into the m= ixer but S/N is still poor evidenced by WSPR and Opera reports I give to ot= her station who are being received much better elsewhere. If any one can he= lp me with that then it would make life here on MF/LF=A0a lot better. =0A= =A0=0AKeep the bands open and may get to work you Stefan now you have 472/9= ....... why the delay in the UK????=0A=A0=0A73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A= =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Stefan Sch=E4fer =0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0ASent: W= ednesday, 13 June 2012, 22:05=0ASubject: Re: LF: RE: Class E etc=0A =0A=0A= Hi Pete, LF, =0A=0AOn 137 kHz or 500 kHz you can quite easy achieve 95% eff= iciency with a=0Aclass E PA. BTW a ferrite transformer is not needed! So if= your antenna=0Aprovides stable resonance and impdedance and if you like to= play=0Aarround a bit to obtain the best efficiency (not the highes output= =0Apower), a well designed class E PA is definitifely a good choice! 1 kW= =0ARF (CW, key down!) is possible with a single IRFP MOSFET. =0AI hardly ex= pect that you will get such an efficiency with a tube amp=0Abut i can under= stand the fascination of a glowing tube in a dark shack,=0Aalthough i'm not= from the tube generation ;-) The first power amplifier=0Ai heard of was a = 2N3055 in the late 80s as i was 12 year old or so :-)=0A=0A73, Stefan/DK7FC= =0A=0A=0AAm 13.06.2012 16:51, schrieb M0FMT: =0AWell shoot me down=0Awith m= y britches on fire! =0A>=A0 =0A>Mal =0A>I have just found an article on an= enhanced Class C in=0ATube amplifiers By RCA. =0A>I have heard of higher= =0Aefficiency Valve amps but never gave them any time because I thought=0At= hey used special valves to achieve the fast response. But apparently=0Anot,= it relies on a tuned circuit in the anode and cathode. The cathode=0ALC be= ing set at the third harmonic of the anode one. By combining the=0Adrive wa= ve with the third hamonic you get a very fast rising pulse=0Atype=A0wave at= the drive frequency in the PA tuned circuit as with a=0Aclass D/E solid st= ate amp. URL is ........ http://nrcdxas.org/articles/bta5t/ =0A>=A0 =0A>I t= hink the point=0Aabout this is that it works OK for fixed frequency TX's li= ke broadcast=0Atransmitters and the like. And probably will work OK for us = on LF with=0Asuch narrow allocations where we may get away with one set up.= =0A>=A0 =0A>Now to see if it is=0Ascalable to lower power video tubes. =0A= >=0A>73 es GL Pete=0AM0FMT IO91UX=0A>=0A>From: mal hamilton =0A>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>Sent: Tuesday, 12 June=0A2= 012, 19:48=0A>Subject: Re: LF: RE:=0AClass E etc=0A> =0A>=0A>Pete es Co = =0A>The class C tube amplifer is the nearest you=0Acan get to class D or E = and well designed would=A0produce 70% efficiency. =0A>The class D or E is n= ot really an amplifier=0Ain the convential sense it is merely an RF switch = at the frequency of=0Ainterest and the voltage generated is increased by a = step up=0Atransformer with probably 80% to 90% efficiency if you are lucky.= =0A>Like some have said a tube amp is more robust=0Aand tolerant of misma= tch to antenna without smoke. Fets are good but=0Acan go bang if one is not= careful about matching to load. =0A>I have some Dentron amps for the HF ba= nds and=0Athey have been going for years. =0A>Fets are probably more manage= able, compact=0A=A0and safer regarding voltages, beware of tubes with volta= ges of a few=0AK/volts at high current, like an electric chair!! =0A>73 de = mal/g3kev =0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: M0FMT =0A>>To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012=0A11:15 AM = =0A>>Subject: Re: LF: RE: Class E etc =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Hi Ken =0A>>=A0 =0A>>= I believe you can operate=A0some thermionic devices in higher classes than = C=A0but=0Athey generally lack the frequency response of a modern FET. I=0Aw= on't go into figures but just think about it. The high efficiency output st= age has to operate like a switch it is not actually an=0Aamplifier. The fas= ter it changes state from fully on with ultra low=0Aresistance to fully off= (which=A0means a device that will operate=A0well=0Ainto the=A0VHF)=A0the h= igher the efficiency. If you have a device that is=0Abarely rated to say a = couple of megs its not going to be much good (in=0Aterms of what we are tal= king about)=A0at 500kc/s. Remember you are trying=0Ato get the magnetic fie= ld in the inductor to rise and collapse at a very=0Afast rate in-order to g= enerate a high electromagnetic field at the drive frequency. We are=0Anot t= alking sine waves here as a scope on the drain will show. Although=0Aa scop= e on the output side of the drain inductor will show quite a=0Aclean lookin= g sine wave. Try it. =0A>>=A0 =0A>>That chart at the end of that PDF file= =0Ais very clever and is the guide=A0I use to bring a PA into optimum=0Aper= formance. =0A>>=A0 =0A>>What I was trying to say is that the math is all ve= ry=0Awell but if you are trying to make a practical and=A0efficient CW TX f= or=0ALF then=A0there is enough empirical data from following the guide line= s lines shown on the sites I have=0Aposted=A0that will get you a good TX. I= f you want a doctorate in=0Atheoretical physics to bamboozle you colleagues= then that will detract from the time it takes to build a very interesting = high=0Apower, efficient=A0TX design well within anybodies capabilities.=A0T= he GW3UEP design being IMHO a very good (Scalable) example with no=A0RadCom= =A0style unobtainium in the components listing. =0A>>=0A>>73 es GL Pete M0F= MT IO91UX=0A>>=0A>>From: Ken =0A>>To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org =0A>>Sent: Monday, 11=0AJune 2012, 22:09=0A>>Subject: = LF: RE:=0AClass E etc=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Hi Pete. =0A>>About 40 years ago= my integration was=0Aquite good, liked doing 2nd order differential=0Aequa= tions, partial integration and integration by parts, the one thing=0AI had = big problems with was 3 dimensional integration of a point in=0Afree space = . =A0=A0Looking at some of the sites my Class C MOSFET PA is probably more = like Class E by default. The reason I like valves=0Ais because they are ver= y forgiving devices unlike semiconductors, also=0Athe keep the shack and th= e cat warm. =0A>>=A0 =0A>>73s =0A>>=A0 =0A>>Ken =0A>>=A0 =0A>>M0KHW =0A>>= =A0 =0A>> =0A>>From:owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:=0Aowner- r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of M0FMT=0A>>Sent: 11 June 2012=0A1= 9:16=0A>>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=0A>>Subject: LF: Class E=0Aetc = =0A>>=A0 =0A>>=A0 Hi Ken =0A>>=A0 =0A>>Ha ha Stefan, how good is=A0yo= ur Integration Ken? =0A>>=A0 Here are a couple of sites that should=0Aan= swer your questions. You need a good dummy load and a good=0Aoscilloscope. = Setting the conditions for the amplifier is to do with=A0=0AA/ the correct = driver preferably using a FET drive chip (like TC4422 non and TC4421 invert= ing) that will turn the FET fully=A0on and fully off on each cycle. Very fa= st rise time with=0Aaccurate=A0on off timing (mark / space). Ensuring the= =A0max permitted gate=0Avoltage for the FET=A0is not exceeded otherwise the= y=0Apop, look out for transients, a diode clamp helps.=A0 B/ Setting the=0A= shunt capacitance and inductance=A0in the drain=A0circuit can be done empir= ically See article below. Then follow it with=A0a=A0low pass filter, althou= gh the=0Aoutput wave will be surprisingly clean.=A0Calculating the values i= s difficult as you don't necessarily=0Aknow all the starting=A0parameters a= nd in any case=A0the result is=A0going to=0Awide of the mark. The site belo= w will gives some starting values. Best=0Ato use 'Scope measurements to set= the output conditions. You are looking for fast, very fast On /=0AOff rise= times. Gate drive and understanding the drain circuit is the=0Akey. The= se amplifiers are capable of=0Aincredibly good efficiency well above a dodg= y class C amp. This means=0Athe heat dissipation from the FET is very low a= t high power=A0giving=0Acool heat-sinks! =0A>>=A0 The GW3UEP (do=0Aa w= eb search) single ended design is capable good efficiency=A0and=0Ahigh powe= r depending upon the FET used and Drain supply voltage. I=0Ahave modified o= ne to run reliably at 140watts and is capable of almost=0Atwice that into a= dummy load with a heat sink that is fairly cool.=0AAdjusting L and C empir= ically using the 'scope to get the correct drain wave shape for max efficie= ncy=0Ais the way to go. The article below shows you what you are looking fo= r.=0AI set my TX up into a 50 Ohm dummy load adjusting L and C to get the= =0Acorrect drain wave shape on the 'scope then measuring the peak voltage= =0Aacross the Dummy load.=A0I then transfer my=A0connector from the Dummy l= oad=0Ato the input of the tuned transformer in the antenna up-lead.=0AI adj= ust the coupling link to give the same peak voltage=A0across the=0Atuner li= nk turns. You are not looking for maximum peak just the sames=0Aas across t= he dummy load indicating a 50ohm match.=A0This is done by=0Aeither=A0adding= or reducing=A0the number of turns (about two turns) along=0Awith bringing = the the transformer to resonance by measuring the peak=A0up-lead current, h= ere you are looking for the maximum peak.=A0=A0 =0A>>=A0 =0A>>Oh yes an= d WIMA high voltage high value capacitors from Maplin work well. =0A>> =0A= >>=A0 Read the articles and search info on=0Aclass E amplifiers.=A0 =0A= >>=A0 =0A>>=A0 =0A>>For some bed time reading but ignor the math look at = the Tuning Procedure and the pictures at the end which=0Atell it all really= ..... http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~culler/AIIT/papers/radio/Sokal%20AACD5-po= weramps.pdf =0A>>=A0 =0A>>For design ideas http://www.classeradio.com/ = =0A>>=A0 =0A>>For a good practical circuit for a=0Asingle ended amp=A0= that =A0is a scalable surefire design, no need to reinvent the wheel. =0A= >>http://www.gw3uep.ukfsn.org/ =0A>> =0A>>=A0 For antennas and antenna fe= ed methods=0Aa "look no where else site" =0A>> =0A>>http://www.strobbe.= eu/on7yd/136ant/ =0A>>=A0 =0A>>73 es GL Pete=0AM0FMT IO91UX = =0A>>=0A>>=A0 =0A>=0A> ---1613889061-985321963-1339628355=:5649 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan and Graha= m
 
Thanks for the comme= nts. None of my MF/LF tx.s run more that 160watts although= by seriesing a couple of PSUs one with a floating ground = I can run about 280Watts o/p from the TX. I don't like seriesing the PSUs so only do it during experimenting not on the air. Need to = build a new high voltage PSU 100V at a good current rating. The rigs are FET PA IRF<= /span>840 etc mostly xtal controlled or xtal mixer type master oscillator (but do = have DDS), into a FET driver= chip. And set them as described earlier.
&nb= sp;
I have played with High power Audio amps on 136kc/s tra= nsforming the Low impedance to 50 ohms+/- using Ferrite cored transformer t= o drive the antenna tuner. Front end currently popped!! Using it for QRSS overnight.Will get it back on soon.
=  
My interest in Valve or Tube TX is a side iss= ue and am not advocating them for serious modern MF/LF work. However there is no reason why not.=
 
I have made a couple of TUBE= QRP rigs one for 160/80 about 4/5= watts out Choke modulated AM and CW and FSK. Worked most of UK on AM on 3.615megs. The second is a cop= y for 500kc/s was originally VFO controlled but now is again xt= al mixer vxo. They us= e 6CL6 video tubes in the PA. The 500kc/s tube tx only runs a watt o/p yet to figure out why, it should= be about 5watts. How ever on my new found Opera4 have been repor= ted in PA0 land (on the limit).
I have built and sti= ll got one or two 807 PAed rigs for 80m knocking about. Plus a Louis Varney design made by an unknown amateur in the 1950s and= a Codar T5 and a push pull 807 rig on the stocks.... b= ut probably won't get finished. Plus an FL2000B. This to show my thermionic= credentials.... hee!=
 
For shear interest I would l= ike to try and make a high efficiency TUBE PA but probably won't get around= to it. But that 1960s RCA AM BC TX design looks interesting but probably v= ery dodgy to set up, stability and all. Graham your arc tubes is all very w= ell but what I have read is that they have a tendency to blow up...... and = so do FETs ok so no change there then.
=  
My current limitation to power Stefan i= s lack of a single stable PSU with a couple of KW output. The antenna is now reduce to 35ft up and 128f= t top.
 
I don't have a good = RX for MF/LF what I have are= deaf by others standards and this is my main area of interest at the momen= t. I have used a TS50 and a TS690s full filters plus a couple of direc= t conversion HB RX = ;with active filers and notch.
Front ends have gone = from dual gate mosfet to str= aight into the mixer but S/N is still poor = evidenced by WSPR and Opera = reports I give to other station who are being received much better elsewhere. If any one can help me with= that then it would make life here on MF/LF a lot better.
 
= Keep the bands open and may get to work you= Stefan now you have 472/9....... why the d= elay in the UK????
 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=
= From: Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-h= eidelberg.de>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Sent: Wednesd= ay, 13 June 2012, 22:05
Subject:<= /span> Re: LF: RE: Class E etc

=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A
=0AHi Pete, LF,
=0A
=0AOn 137 kHz o= r 500 kHz you can quite easy achieve 95% efficiency with a=0Aclass E PA. BT= W a ferrite transformer is not needed! So if your antenna=0Aprovides stable= resonance and impdedance an= d if you like to play=0Aarround a bit to obtain the best efficiency (not the highes output=0Apower), a well designed class E PA is = definitifely a good choice! = 1 kW=0ARF (CW, key down!) is possible with a single IRFP MOSFET= .
=0AI hardly expect that you will get such an efficiency with a= tube amp=0Abut i can understand the fascination of a glowing tube in a dar= k shack,=0Aalthough i'm not = from the tube generation ;-) The first power amplifier=0Ai heard of was a 2= N3055 in the late 80s as i was 12 year old or so :-)
=0A
=0A73, Stefa= n/DK7FC
=0A
=0A
=0AAm 13.06.2012 16:51, schrieb M0FMT:=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Well = shoot me down=0Awith my britches on fire!
=0A
 
=0A
Mal
=0A
I have just fou= nd an article on an enhanced Class C in=0ATube amplifiers By RCA.=0A
I have heard of higher=0Aefficien= cy Valve amps but never gave them any time because I thought=0Athey used sp= ecial valves to achieve the fast response. But apparently=0Anot, it relies = on a tuned circuit in the anode and cathode. The cathode=0ALC being set at = the third harmonic of the anode one. By combining the=0Adrive wave with the= third hamonic you get a ver= y fast rising pulse=0Atype wave at the drive frequency in the PA tuned= circuit as with a=0Aclass D/E solid state amp. URL is ........ http= ://nrcdxas.org/articles/bta5t/
=0A
 
=0A
I think the p= oint=0Aabout this is that it works OK for fixed frequency TX's like broadcast=0Atransmitters and the li= ke. And probably will work OK for us on LF with=0Asuch narrow allocations w= here we may get away with one set up.
=0A
 
=0A
Now to see if it is=0Ascalable to lower power video tubes.
= =0A
 
=0A =
73 es GL Pete=0AM0FMT IO91UX
=0A
=0A =
=0A
From:= mal hamilton=0A<g3kevmal@talktalk.net= >
=0A To:=0Arsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
=0A Sent: Tuesday, 12 June=0A2012, 19:= 48
=0A Subject: Re: LF= : RE:=0AClass E etc
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Pete es Co
=0A =
The class C tube amplifer is the nearest you=0Acan get to class D or E and = well designed would produce 70% efficiency.
=0A
The class D or E is not really an amplifier=0Ain the convential sense it is merely an = RF switch at the frequency of=0Ainterest and the voltage generated is incre= ased by a step up=0Atransformer with probably 80% to 90% efficiency if you = are lucky.
=0A
Like some have said = a tube amp is more robust=0Aand tolerant of mismatch to antenna without smo= ke. Fets are good but=0Acan = go bang if one is not careful about matching to load.
=0A I have some D= entron amps for the HF bands and=0Athey have been going for years.
=0A
Fets are probably more manageable, compact=0A and safer = regarding voltages, beware of tubes with voltages of a few=0AK/volts at hig= h current, like an electric chair!!
=0A
73 de mal/g3= kev
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
----- = Original Message -----
=0A
From: M0FMT=0A
=0A =0A
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012=0A11:15 AM
=0A Subject: Re: LF: RE: Class E= etc
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A Hi Ken
=0A
 
=0A I believe=0A= you can operate some thermionic devices in higher classes than C = but=0Athey generally lack the frequency response of a modern FET. I=0Awon't go into figures=0Abut just think about it. The high= efficiency=0Aoutpu= t stage has to operate like a switch it is not actually an=0Aamplifier. The= faster it changes state from fully on with ultra low=0Aresistance to fully= off (which means a device that will operate well=0Ainto the = ;VHF) the higher the efficiency. If you have a device that is=0Abarely= rated to say a couple of megs its not going to be much good (in=0Aterms of= what we are talking about) at 500kc/s. Remember you are trying=0Ato g= et the magnetic field in the inductor to rise and collapse at a very=0Afast rate in-order=0Ato generate a = high electromagnetic field at the drive frequency. We are=0Anot talking sin= e waves here as a scope on the drain will show. Although=0Aa scope on the o= utput side of the drain inductor will show quite a=0Aclean looking sine wav= e. Try it.
=0A
 
=0A
That chart at the end of that PDF file=0Ais very clever and is the guide I use to bring a PA into o= ptimum=0Aperformance.
=0A
 
=0A =
What I was trying to say is that the math is all very=0Awell = but if you are trying to make a practical and efficient CW TX for=0ALF= then there is enough empiri= cal=0Adata from following the guide lines lines shown on the = sites I have=0Aposted that will get you a good TX. If you want a docto= rate in=0Atheoretical physics to = bamboozle=0Ayou co= lleagues=0Athen that will detract from the time it takes to b= uild a very interesting high=0Apower, efficient TX design well within anybodies capabili= ties. The GW3UEP=0Adesign being IMHO a very good (Scalable) e= xample with no RadCom s= tyle=0A <= span id=3D"misspell-81" class=3D"mark">unobtainium=0Ain the c= omponents listing.
=0A
 
=0A
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=0A
= =0A
=0A
= From= : Ken=0A<ken.h.wright@btinternet.com&g= t;
=0A To:=0Arsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
=0A Sent: Monday, 11=0AJune 2012, 22= :09
=0A Subject: LF:= RE:=0AClass E etc
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
=0A =
Hi Pete.
=0A
About 40 years ago my integration was=0Aquite g= ood, liked doing 2nd = order differential=0Aequations, partial integration and integration by part= s, the one thing=0AI had big problems with was 3 dimensional integration of= a point in=0Afree space .   Looking at some of the sites my Clas= s C MOSFET=0APA is probably more= like Class E by default. The reason I like valves=0Ais because they are ve= ry forgiving devices unlike semiconductors, also=0Athe keep the shack and t= he cat warm.
=0A
 
=0A
73s
=0A
 =0A
Ken
=0A  
=0A
<= span style=3D"color: navy; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;" class=3D"y= iv486436119ms__id4317">M0KHW
=0A
 = ;
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: owner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg [mailto:=0Aowner- rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of M0FMT
=0A Sent: 11 June 2012=0A19:16
=0A = To:=0Arsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
=0A Subject: LF: Class E=0Aetc
=0A =
=0A
 =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A
= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A  
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
<= font color=3D"black" size=3D"2" face=3D"Verdana">Hi Ken
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
=0A
=0A
Ha ha Stefan, how good = is your Integratio= n=0AKen?
=0A
=0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A =0A
= =0A
= Here are a couple of sites that should=0Aanswer your questions. You need a = good dummy load and a good=0Aoscilloscope. Setting the conditions for the a= mplifier is to do with =0AA/ the correct driver preferably using a FET=0Adrive chip (like TC4422 non a= nd TC4421 inverting) that will turn the FET=0Afully on and fully off on each cycle. Very fast rise tim= e with=0Aaccurate on off timing (mark / space). Ensuring the max = permitted gate=0Avoltage for the FET is not exceeded otherwise they=0Apop, look out for transients, a = diode clamp helps.  B/ Setting the=0Ashunt capacitance and inductance&= nbsp;in the drain circuit can be done empirically=0ASee article below. Then follow it with a low pass fil= ter, although the=0Aoutput wave will be surprisingly= =0Aclean. Calculating the values is difficult as you don't nece= ssarily=0Aknow all the starting parameters and in any case the re= sult is going to=0Awide of the mark. The site below will gives some st= arting values. Best=0Ato use 'Scope measurements=0Ato set the output conditions. You are looking for fast, very fast On = /=0AOff rise times. Gate drive and understanding the drain circuit is the= =0Akey.
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A =0A
=0A
These amplifiers are capable of=0Aincredibly good effici= ency well above a dodgy class C amp. This means=0Athe heat dissipation from= the FET is very low at high pow= er giving=0Acool heat-sinks!
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
The GW3UEP (do=0Aa web search) single ended des= ign is capable good efficiency and=0Ahi= gh power depending upon the FET = used and Drain supply voltage. I=0Ahave modified one to run reliably at 140= watts and is capable of almost=0Atwice that into a dummy load with a heat s= ink that is fairly cool.=0AAdjusting L and C empirically=0Ausing the 'scope to get the correct drain wave shape for max= efficiency=0Ais the way to go. The article below shows you what you are lo= oking for.=0AI set my TX up into a 50 Ohm dummy load adjusting L and C to g= et the=0Acorrect drain wave shape on the 'scope then measuring the peak vol= tage=0Aacross the Dummy load. I then transfer my connector from t= he Dummy load=0Ato the input of the tuned transformer in the antenna up-lead.=0AI adjust the coupling link to give the = same peak voltage across the=0Atuner link turns. You are not looking f= or maximum peak just the sames=0Aas across the dummy load indicating a 50oh= m match. This is done by=0Aeither adding or reducing the num= ber of turns (about two turns) along=0Awith bringing the the transformer to= resonance by measuring the peak = up-lead=0Acurrent, here you are looking for the maximum peak.  <= /font>
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
 
=0A =
=0A
=0A
Oh yes and WIMA=0Ahigh voltage high value capacitors from Maplin=0Awork well.
=0A
=0A <= div>=0A  
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
Read the articles and search info on=0Aclass E amplifiers. <= /font>
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
 
=0A =
=0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
=0A =
For = some bed time reading but ignor= =0Athe math look at the Tuning Procedure and the pictures at the end which= =0Atell it all really..... http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~culler/AIIT/papers/radio/Sokal%20AACD5-p= oweramps.pdf
=0A
=0A
=0A
=  
=0A
=0A
=0A
For design ideas
=0A
= =0A =0A =0A =0A
=0A =0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
= =0A
For a good practical= circuit for a=0Asingle ended amp that  is a sca= lable=0Asurefire design, no need to reinvent the wheel.
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
For antennas and antenna feed methods=0Aa "look no where else site" =
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
=0A
73 es GL<= /span> Pete=0AM0FMT IO91UX
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A <= /div>=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A 
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A=
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A =0A = =0A=0A=0A=0A

---1613889061-985321963-1339628355=:5649--