Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 53F5F3800012C; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 13:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SgJd6-0007Ds-6k for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:51:16 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SgJd5-0007Dj-EE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:51:15 +0100 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SgJd2-0007v9-UP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:51:14 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmIFAKkY3k9cHn+y/2dsb2JhbABFgkWiMJBdgQiCEwUBAQQBCAEBA0kCIQUGAQEDBQIBAxEDAQEBCiUUAQQaBhYIBhMKAQICAQGHbAMGCbc9ilZiCgoHhiADiA+FNJJghH6CYIFW X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,427,1336345200"; d="scan'208,217";a="395149209" Received: from host-92-30-127-178.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.30.127.178]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 17 Jun 2012 18:51:05 +0100 Message-ID: <007401cd4cb1$c1853f70$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: Cc: References: <4FDDE3C9.8080505@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <360DB78560C94BDDB6ED8173E08935E7@gnat>,<004201cd4c9d$97c6ff70$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 16:44:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Laurence I am on the East coast near the sea and both 160/600 are similar. I suppose at other locations things might be different although when I have been elswhere I have never noticed that the top end of the MF BROADCAST BAND differs much from the lower end in other words, seems fairly linear from 520 Khz to 1700 Khz. For a given distance the signals are just as strong at one end as the other during daytime and during darkness when the band opens up for DX Mal/G3KEV [...] Content analysis details: (0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [62.24.128.237 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FSL_XM_419 Old OE version in X-Mailer only seen in 419 spam -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 FSL_UA FSL_UA 0.4 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 X-Scan-Signature: 60cd3dc4440dc5d656099dfe3d5cf4d2 Subject: LF: Re: re: Further MF impressions Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01CD4CA8.6BF13900" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:494247776:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4fde196049ec X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01CD4CA8.6BF13900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laurence I am on the East coast near the sea and both 160/600 are similar. I = suppose at other locations things might be different although when I = have been elswhere I have never noticed that the top end of the MF = BROADCAST BAND differs much from the lower end in other words, seems = fairly linear from 520 Khz to 1700 Khz. For a given distance the signals = are just as strong at one end as the other during daytime and during = darkness when the band opens up for DX Mal/G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: LF: re: Further MF impressions Ive found 160/600m dx and even ground wave coverage very different = dependent on Geographic and Geomagnetic latitudes, topography etc. Even = the Iono QRN affects from lightning has a different "taste" It may be the same with Mal in the UK but my personal view is it hasnt = played out that way in a number of places Ive operated in/on globally. = Vivre la/le difference! (apologies!) Laurence KL1X enroute to AK (yipee) > From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > CC: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:26:39 +0000 > Subject: LF: Re: Re: Further MF impressions >=20 > Alan > I work both 160 metres and 600 metres and find both similar. Daytime = range > and night time similar. > but you must compare like with like power and antenna wise. > I use a 1/4 wave inv L on each band up at 100 ft vertical, but = naturally the > 600 metre antenna is less efficient than the 160 metre therefore one = has to > adjust the power on 160 to get the same erp for comparison purposes. = In my > case 10w erp on each band > For those fiddling about with 400w pep on 160 and a variety of = antennas and > unknown erp and those with a few watts on 600 metres and often very = small > antennas you cannot draw any rational comparison > I can work over the same distances daytime on 160 or 600 and after = dark the > same applies to dx locations. >=20 > de mal/g3kev >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Melia" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:54 PM > Subject: LF: Re: Further MF impressions >=20 >=20 > > Stefan, the groundwave does not change, but what you have is = varying > amounts > > of skywave and daytime "fading" The wavelength is only a quarter = of that > at > > 136kHz so it only tales a quarter of the change in (apparent) = reflection > > height to give the same sort of constrctive and destructive = interference. > > 500kHz does not travel over land so well as the surface = "roughness" is > > bigger wrt a wavelength ( but even rough seas are generally less = "rough" > > than land ) Yes 500k is an interesting frequency and quite = different to > both > > 136 and top-band. There are times of the day when the fading can = be > vicious > > at relatively short range Also with the shorter wavelength most = antenna > > height limited stations can have up to 16 times more ERP than at = 136kHz > > > > Enjoy the new "playground" :-)) > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:03 PM > > Subject: LF: Further MF impressions > > > > > > > MF, > > > > > > I just thought my receiver isn't working correctly. I thought = the xtal > > > does not start to oscillate due to the higher ambient = temperatures in > the > > > afternoon. But later i found that the band noise on MF is = significantly > > > lower than in the evening, at least 20 dB. So now i see that the = band > > > noise is about 5 dB above my soundcard noise with the current = setup. > > > > > > What do others know about the ground wave range in summer and in = the > > > afternoon? When does the band open? Similar to LF? > > > > > > BTW thanks to DF6NM for the grabber. Nice tool to get some = experience in > > > these first days... > > > > > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01CD4CA8.6BF13900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Laurence
I am on the East coast near the sea and = both=20 160/600 are similar. I suppose at other locations things might be = different=20 although when I have been elswhere I have never noticed that the top end = of the=20 MF BROADCAST BAND differs much from the lower end in other words, seems = fairly=20 linear from 520 Khz to 1700 Khz. For a given distance the signals are = just as=20 strong at one end as the other during daytime and during darkness when = the band=20 opens up for DX
Mal/G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Laurence KL7UK =
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 = 3:48 PM
Subject: LF: re: Further MF=20 impressions

Ive found 160/600m dx and even ground wave coverage = very=20 different dependent on Geographic and Geomagnetic latitudes, = topography etc. Even the Iono QRN affects from lightning has a = different=20 "taste"

It may be the same with Mal in the UK but my personal view is it = hasnt=20 played out that way in a number of places Ive operated in/on globally. = Vivre=20 la/le difference! (apologies!)

Laurence KL1X enroute to AK (yipee)



> From: = g3kevmal@talktalk.net
> To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> CC: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>=20 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:26:39 +0000
> Subject: LF: Re: Re: = Further MF=20 impressions
>
> Alan
> I work both 160 metres and = 600=20 metres and find both similar. Daytime range
> and night time=20 similar.
> but you must compare like with like power and antenna = wise.
> I use a 1/4 wave inv L on each band up at 100 ft = vertical, but=20 naturally the
> 600 metre antenna is less efficient than the 160 = metre=20 therefore one has to
> adjust the power on 160 to get the same = erp for=20 comparison purposes. In my
> case 10w erp on each band
> = For those=20 fiddling about with 400w pep on 160 and a variety of antennas = and
>=20 unknown erp and those with a few watts on 600 metres and often very=20 small
> antennas you cannot draw any rational comparison
> = I can=20 work over the same distances daytime on 160 or 600 and after dark = the
>=20 same applies to dx locations.
>
> de mal/g3kev
> =
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Melia"=20 <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
> To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, = 2012 2:54=20 PM
> Subject: LF: Re: Further MF impressions
>
> =
>=20 > Stefan, the groundwave does not change, but what you have is=20 varying
> amounts
> > of skywave and daytime "fading" = The=20 wavelength is only a quarter of that
> at
> > 136kHz so = it only=20 tales a quarter of the change in (apparent) reflection
> > = height to=20 give the same sort of constrctive and destructive = interference.
> >=20 500kHz does not travel over land so well as the surface "roughness" = is
>=20 > bigger wrt a wavelength ( but even rough seas are generally less=20 "rough"
> > than land ) Yes 500k is an interesting frequency = and=20 quite different to
> both
> > 136 and top-band. There = are times=20 of the day when the fading can be
> vicious
> > at = relatively=20 short range Also with the shorter wavelength most antenna
> > = height=20 limited stations can have up to 16 times more ERP than at = 136kHz
>=20 >
> > Enjoy the new "playground" :-))
> >
> = >=20 Alan G3NYK
> >
> > ----- Original Message = -----
> >=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" = <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>=20 > To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> > Sent: = Sunday, June=20 17, 2012 3:03 PM
> > Subject: LF: Further MF = impressions
>=20 >
> >
> > > MF,
> > >
> > = > I=20 just thought my receiver isn't working correctly. I thought the = xtal
>=20 > > does not start to oscillate due to the higher ambient = temperatures=20 in
> the
> > > afternoon. But later i found that the = band=20 noise on MF is significantly
> > > lower than in the = evening, at=20 least 20 dB. So now i see that the band
> > > noise is = about 5 dB=20 above my soundcard noise with the current setup.
> > = >
>=20 > > What do others know about the ground wave range in summer = and in=20 the
> > > afternoon? When does the band open? Similar to=20 LF?
> > >
> > > BTW thanks to DF6NM for the = grabber.=20 Nice tool to get some experience in
> > > these first=20 days...
> > >
> > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC
> = >=20 >
> >
> >
>
>=20
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