Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5BB9B38000099; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 07:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SbsBp-00042T-49 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:44:45 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SbsBo-00042H-Dz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:44:44 +0100 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SbsBl-0001t8-Ss for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 12:44:43 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 05 Jun 2012 11:44:39 -0000 Received: from p4FDD6F67.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [79.221.111.103] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 05 Jun 2012 13:44:39 +0200 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/DTDxVckzDkM1ZYr73wZcZXW1MVUUIMKcoHhZSre VW8pK0tlO6P/E9 Message-ID: <007001cd4310$97448400$1502a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <4FCB96A9.4010009@usa.net><4FCB9F34.7040604@legal-medicine.de><4FCBCC8B.9050308@usa.net><77A08BCA-E9AB-404B-B425-BFD3564F66FE@thelortons.co.uk><517B3527-8D27-4E07-853D-653F9AF3E025@thelortons.co.uk><4FCCCB31.4080201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4FCCD2B9.1030408@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:44:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3664 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: John, >I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used for QSO related posts I'm concerned about the time delay on the black sheep server. To my experience there is always a certain delay until emails appear on the refelector and this delay is more or less variable. So you never can be sure if a 'qso alert' and the related replies reach the interested list members *in time* which is quite essential when trying a sked. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [213.165.64.22 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (cpaul[at]gmx.net) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 8784cdbd504ef8804d6bf58c55c77386 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Black Sheep Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006C_01CD4321.58F0A4C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:511574048:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4fcdf1577258 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CD4321.58F0A4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John, >I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used for QSO related posts I'm concerned about the time delay on the black sheep server. To my experience there is always a certain delay until emails appear on the refelector and this delay is more or less variable. So you never can be sure if a 'qso alert' and the related replies reach the interested list members *in time* which is quite essential when trying a sked. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gould To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:03 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Black Sheep Stefan, Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that reported before. Of course I will understand that there will be some that either can't vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes both ways. I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one as it's cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take away a facility that a few people use really effectively. I have to admit that I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the poor behaviour by a few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of amateur radio. I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be used for QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more technical discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the additional facilities. Short-term information of this sort isn't wanted by everyone and doesn't need to be searched after the event, so having two lists for the different functions has some logic. Stefan, I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some clarity will come when the emotion runs its course. 73 John, G3WKL On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Schäfer wrote: Hello John, Yesterday i subscribed again, just for voting. I got the confirmation to be on the list (only the email list!) and also got new messages from the yahoo list. But the poll area was still blanked and appeared in the "members only" section. So no chance. I unsubscribed again... Apart from this, there are several members (i assume) who are not so fimilar with the english language but anyway want to be a part of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ years old i assume. This may be to complex for a fraction of those and so they have no real chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored! Anyway, you clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not only me who wants to stay here. The LF community here is a small group, although we are spread all over the world. If the pro-blacksheep party (in a fair poll) would be only 20%, would you shut them down? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould: Stefan, I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a yahoo account. I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail account and that worked OK, so you should be able to join the RSGB_LF_Group with your Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the membership to be authorised by one of the moderators, vote and then un-subscribe. I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a poll on the other group that everyone can see who voted and how they voted. 73 John, G3WKL On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Schäfer wrote: Hi Clive, LF, For those who simply subscribed to the list but without having a yahoo account it is not possible to vote! This situation is advantaging the pro-yahoo party. Please remind those who are blind for such facts that there are further members (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate in this process. My vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group compromise. As long as the two groups are not treated like competitors, where one has to win and the other will be shut down after some time. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive Lorton: If you have voted it is possible to change your vote before the voting period ends. E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virendatenbank: 2425/5044 - Ausgabedatum: 04.06.2012 ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CD4321.58F0A4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John,
 
>I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be = used for=20 QSO related posts
 
I'm concerned about the time delay on = the black=20 sheep server.
To my experience there is always a = certain delay=20 until emails appear on the refelector
and this delay is more or less=20 variable.
So you never can be sure if  a = 'qso=20 alert'  and the related replies reach the interested list=20 members
*in time* which is quite = essential when=20 trying a sked.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 John Gould
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 = 11:03=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Black = Sheep


Stefan,

Sorry that you weren't able to vote - very odd - not had that = reported=20 before.

Of course I will understand that there will be some that either = can't=20 vote, like you, or won't vote (for a variety of reasons) and this goes = both=20 ways.  

I don't really want to administer two groups, especially this one = as it's=20 cumbersome to do, but equally I am not keen to effectively take away a = facility that a few people use really effectively.  I have to = admit that=20 I can't understand what the fuss is about and moreso the poor = behaviour by a=20 few; it's just doesn't match with the ethos of amateur radio.

I am somewhat swayed by the suggestion that this list could be = used for=20 QSO related posts, a bit like the Cluster, and leave the more = technical=20 discussion to the Yahoo! Group list where one has the additional = facilities.=20  Short-term information of this sort isn't wanted by everyone and = doesn't=20 need to be searched after the event, so having two lists for the = different=20 functions has some logic.

Stefan,  I'll try and do the right thing - hopefully, some = clarity=20 will come when the emotion runs its course.  

73 John, G3WKL
On 4 June 2012 16:22, Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> = wrote:
Hello = John,

Yesterday i=20 subscribed again, just for voting. I got the confirmation to be on = the list=20 (only the email list!) and also got new messages from the yahoo = list. But=20 the poll area was still blanked and appeared in the "members only" = section.=20 So no chance. I unsubscribed again...

Apart from this, there = are=20 several members (i assume) who are not so fimilar with the english = language=20 but anyway want to be a part of the LF group. Some of them are 70+ = years old=20 i assume. This may be to complex for a fraction of those and so they = have no=20 real chance to vote. So their opinion will be ignored! =

Anyway, you=20 clearly see from the emails here that it's by far not only me who = wants to=20 stay here. The LF community here is a small group, although we are = spread=20 all over the world. If the pro-blacksheep party (in a fair poll) = would be=20 only 20%, would you shut them down?

73, = Stefan/DK7FC

Am=20 04.06.2012 17:03, schrieb John Gould:=20
Stefan,=20

I not sure that you are correct in saying that one needs a = yahoo=20 account.  I've subscribed to Yahoo! Groups with my Gmail = account and=20 that worked OK, so you should be able to join the RSGB_LF_Group = with your=20 Heidelberg e-mail account, wait for the membership to be = authorised by one=20 of the moderators, vote and then un-subscribe.  

I've not run a poll on this list - it was so easy to set up a = poll on=20 the other group that everyone can see who voted and how they = voted.=20  

73 John, G3WKL

On 4 June 2012 15:50, Stefan Sch=E4fer = <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>=20 wrote:
Hi Clive, LF,

For those who simply = subscribed=20 to the list but without having a yahoo account it is not = possible to=20 vote! This situation is advantaging the pro-yahoo party. Please = remind=20 those who are blind for such facts that there are further = members=20 (outside the poll) who want to codeterminate in this = process.

My=20 vote is pro blacksheep and i would agree with the 2 group = compromise. As=20 long as the two groups are not treated like competitors, where = one has=20 to win and the other will be shut down after some = time.

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.06.2012 13:15, schrieb Clive = Lorton:
If you have voted it is possible to change = your vote=20 before the voting period ends.
 =20 =



E-Mail ist = virenfrei.
Von AVG=20 =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version: 2012.0.2178=20 / Virendatenbank: 2425/5044 - Ausgabedatum: 04.06.2012=20

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