Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mk06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4876C3800008F; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SfXxn-00039G-GI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:57:27 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SfXxm-000397-RN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:57:26 +0100 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SfXxk-0006kc-FJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:57:25 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkkFALJH209cHn0G/2dsb2JhbABFgkWiMJBdgQiCEwUBAQUIAQEDICEIAiELAQEDBQIBAxEEAQEBCSUUAQQYAgYMCggGDwQBCQECAgEBAQsEh1wDDwewOwOJWIpUYoYRA4gPhTSRBYFbhH6CYA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,417,1336345200"; d="scan'208,217";a="38610227" Received: from host-92-30-125-6.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.30.125.6]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 15 Jun 2012 15:57:22 +0100 Message-ID: <002901cd4b07$28b49530$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: Cc: "rsgb" References: Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 14:57:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Graham This particular piece of spectrum was NOT a good choice for radio amateur use. Like Tracy said the majority of the NDB'S are audible in the UK and some very loud during the dark hours. It is only really suitable for CW qso mode where the operator can dive in/out of vacant slots at the time. For Opera or other data modes it will be difficult where a SLOT has to be specified because there are quite dramatic propagation changes taking place especially in the dark hours and you could well end up on top of a NDB or several. The same applies on 160 metres where band condx change all the time, fortunately there are no NDB'S to contend with. It is not surprising commercial operators did not see this part of the spectrum as useful except all NDB'S QRT. NDB'S are still a useful nav aid for the Aeronautical service es others so I cannot see them switching off. G3KEV [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [62.24.128.243 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FSL_XM_419 Old OE version in X-Mailer only seen in 419 spam -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 FSL_UA FSL_UA 0.0 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 X-Scan-Signature: 3aadd9fea9ba15034c375823b9f54189 Subject: LF: Re: [rsgb_lf_group] Re: Band Planning for 472 Khz Band ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD4B07.2871BFD0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:475092800:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 8 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d618a4fdb4d8276b4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD4B07.2871BFD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Graham This particular piece of spectrum was NOT a good choice for radio = amateur use. Like Tracy said the majority of the NDB'S are audible in = the UK and some very loud during the dark hours.=20 It is only really suitable for CW qso mode where the operator can dive = in/out of vacant slots at the time. For Opera or other data modes it will be difficult where a SLOT has to = be specified because there are quite dramatic propagation changes taking = place especially in the dark hours and you could well end up on top of a = NDB or several.=20 The same applies on 160 metres where band condx change all the time, = fortunately there are no NDB'S to contend with. It is not surprising commercial operators did not see this part of the = spectrum as useful except all NDB'S QRT. NDB'S are still a useful nav aid for the Aeronautical service es others = so I cannot see them switching off. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: graham787=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk=20 Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: [rsgb_lf_group] Re: Band Planning for 472 Khz Band ? =20 This is going to be a nightmare, more like a downhill slalom course = than a band allocation=20 Has anyone a graphic of the band and beacon allocations what shows = where the gaps are ? G.. --- In rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk, "Mike Dennison" = wrote: > > Guard bands for all 27 listed NDBs would present a problem as the = MCW=20 > receivers would be at least 2.5kHz wide. Fortunately, any=20 > interference from amateurs is likely to be extremely local. Our = small=20 > signal working is likely to suffer more QRM =3Dfrom=3D the NDBs than = to=20 > them. >=20 > Mike, G3XDV > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > > Twenty-seven NDBs have been logged in Europe between 472-479kHz. > > Twelve of those have been logged from the UK. > > The NDB database on the Classaxe web site would provide detailed > > information on frequencies which should be avoided. It should be = borne > > in mind that the NDBs use A2 mode with a mix of approx 400Hz and > > 1020Hz modulation, so there are a good number of specific slots to = be > > wary of. > >=20 > > http://www.classaxe.com/dx/ndb/reu/ > >=20 > > Perhaps some consideration should be given to setting up some form = of > > guard bands/frequencies in order to avoid any problems with NDBs? > >=20 > > 73s Tracey G5VU > __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a new = topic=20 Messages in this topic (10)=20 Recent Activity: a.. New Members 4=20 Visit Your Group=20 Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use. =20 __,_._,___ ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD4B07.2871BFD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Graham
This particular piece of spectrum was NOT a good = choice=20 for radio amateur use. Like Tracy said the majority of the NDB'S are = audible in=20 the UK and some very loud during the dark hours.
It is only really suitable for CW qso mode where = the=20 operator can dive in/out of vacant slots at the time.
For Opera or other data modes it will be = difficult where a=20 SLOT has to be specified because there are quite dramatic propagation = changes=20 taking place especially in the dark hours and you could well end up on = top of a=20 NDB or several.
The same applies on 160 metres where band condx = change all=20 the time, fortunately there are no NDB'S to contend with.
It is not surprising commercial operators did = not see this=20 part of the spectrum as useful except all NDB'S QRT.
NDB'S are still a useful nav aid for the = Aeronautical=20 service es others so I cannot see them switching off.
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 graham787=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups= .co.uk=20
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 = 2:38 PM
Subject: [rsgb_lf_group] Re: = Band=20 Planning for 472 Khz Band ?

  =

This is going to be a nightmare, more like a downhill slalom course = than a=20 band allocation

Has anyone a graphic of the band and beacon=20 allocations what shows where the gaps are ?

G..

--- In = rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups= .co.uk,=20 "Mike Dennison" <mike.dennison@...> wrote:
>
> Guard = bands=20 for all 27 listed NDBs would present a problem as the MCW
> = receivers=20 would be at least 2.5kHz wide. Fortunately, any
> interference = from=20 amateurs is likely to be extremely local. Our small
> signal = working is=20 likely to suffer more QRM =3Dfrom=3D the NDBs than to
> = them.
>=20
> Mike, G3XDV
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =
> > Twenty-seven=20 NDBs have been logged in Europe between 472-479kHz.
> > = Twelve of=20 those have been logged from the UK.
> > The NDB database on = the=20 Classaxe web site would provide detailed
> > information on=20 frequencies which should be avoided. It should be borne
> > = in mind=20 that the NDBs use A2 mode with a mix of approx 400Hz and
> > = 1020Hz=20 modulation, so there are a good number of specific slots to be
> = >=20 wary of.
> >
> > http://www.classaxe.com/dx/n= db/reu/
>=20 >
> > Perhaps some consideration should be given to = setting up=20 some form of
> > guard bands/frequencies in order to avoid = any=20 problems with NDBs?
> >
> > 73s Tracey=20 G5VU
>

__._,_.___
Reply=20 to sender | Reply=20 to group | Reply=20 via web post | Start=20 a new topic
Messages=20 in this topic (10) =
Recent=20 Activity:=20 New=20 Members 4
Visit=20 Your Group
=20
Switch to: Text-Only,=20 Daily=20 Digest =95 Unsubscribe=20 =95 Terms of = Use
.

__,_._,___
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CD4B07.2871BFD0--