Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 495F53800008C; Fri, 6 Apr 2012 08:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SG8GX-0001ra-It for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:27:45 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SG8GW-0001rR-FL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:27:44 +0100 Received: from nm4.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.61]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1SG8GU-0000PO-R8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:27:44 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.56] by nm4.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2012 12:27:37 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.135] by tm9.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2012 12:27:37 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1040.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2012 12:27:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 77960.18627.bm@omp1040.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 82754 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Apr 2012 12:27:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1333715256; bh=wK3w9iozHF9OzqIvcBAVU8xgcFzF6f/9msdgDaaEHCE=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TgyPHHh8ENdFHShAOt/Pb4TKD14n1L05q8P7Xdp0rECWcY7yq/Ng0QP0HJLlKJiN+K2DVr7bovG+1sTOiuFw4hCX1Fs8qo30ZoHd1qVaOvU+Tg/UdjzKC5HjpRvxzPlkGjICg5u/JmqLwhvWMEvWFnv5ZahT1nza2N+PHZIFrH4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=kTDAbneU6tw1wfgRqwlSPKWKs4OHwUViFMMl2kN54F6wUot/a+8kVmRGf3dqaAQ+hi0e0PjNkO7Jvg7Q1MrdB/XsMN+JKIHxdtwPp9eGjJRb/OuuLpUQNrA2a+vvPWoeBL1O69Lv3EtY636qhwEoOzHhrgR2JuHtPkZHynYag34=; X-YMail-OSG: eVNc3YQVM1m3AvxthyCSfUWIbecOjkF4nFZ4HtpRq9Zd53b BTiGefTK4.pDlMUJn.HUrACxjJiwIsL8d65f2WbKEZvpoJJSd7qPr0gEOCkF JEbOjNlsRHhW8qrQmVzO8G.gd2dav1u4BumiAWPNuhYqWizrxZVxREYWYQQa dTL658JO_MZn0a3hWWdK1uL2GMGevFBzpRr3p63VlEx44acQRupi02ENsy8c beke4ipy5auYzoVKpSkBLNOKSjwqfGeaHU_NgJjr.nF28OrNZZq9S0C7d6GI BymsK1inQ.U9EO6gTiDwXhDvEQBAcX4mzRa6WSbPR1ocejAzuoPMSJg0Re.C rfUjAU7i_0vnCzn_LGTD0sAxaUro5uGioSbB.5qKrVsQi3n8TcNYMCsyb31w Bbs9gv5LNSNML8c3PGvX2zPJrZGdR9n5i5yLs5_9fRttilMrCYuayQLswGvt S3tOt02SDR7Tivm9Z9.9RC1Dk5h9RxqF7H4gsQEGRyYf81KGn9A2uHu_LrVO OdAASSiwZ3dHo5Q0Kv1ec1CI0xDKuFUbDr6Ckt7r3VeZv3wap.O4vimNo7qg hNzqZEOj5wMZlgHMiNceKYDgqCEdgv5kvroKY2OSvNa.vUhcSCiytVB68aOE 2XSsSNK3ogp31Nz0NPTvmCuYnn.8QVpf42XzdkqMEG6kKyOzZMXJVJDmTpAn 2K4_hFQNSL2HMv0ausz2Z7L3i8MJn3osy6TI.sBgyZyan7ADZMdRWzzzfxJ0 6.JlF_X6.2lscRJx60x11NqcuGTaIQ3FiC2VFUmg- Received: from [82.61.138.180] by web29504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:27:36 BST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 References: <4F7DAA67.1000404@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <006b01cd13d1$2fbb5070$1502a8c0@Clemens04> <4F7ED36C.206@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <1333715256.82083.YahooMailNeo@web29504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 13:27:36 +0100 (BST) From: Daniele Tincani To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: <4F7ED36C.206@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TINY_FONT=1.425 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Audio transformer test Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1740643075-1466849074-1333715256=:82083" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:489752320:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m288.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41164f7ee17f2800 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ---1740643075-1466849074-1333715256=:82083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF,=0A=A0=0Arecently I performed some quick and dirty measurements on= a Bourns LM-NP-1001-B1, using simply=A0a sine wave generator (50 ohms outp= ut) and an oscilloscope (10 Mohms input). On the secondary I connected a 15= komhs load resistor (as Clifton labs found that a load impedance of about = 10 komhs was ideal for this transformer, see here for details: http://dl.dr= opbox.com/u/20845911/Bourns%20LM-NP-1001.doc).=0AMy results (quite surprisi= ngly) seemed to show a -3dB point at around 210 kHz and only -0.4 dB @100kH= z.=0A=A0=0ARegards=0ADaniele=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A D= a: Stefan Sch=E4fer =0AA: rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org =0AInviato: Venerd=EC 6 Aprile 2012 13:28=0AOggetto: Re:= LF: Re: Audio transformer test=0A =0AHi Clemens,=0A=0AIn my application i= use it to decouple my 2 orthogonal VLF loops from the soundcard and do som= e "matching" of the low output impedance of the loop to the high input impe= dance of the soundcard. The levels absolute signal levels rised arround 10 = dB, so it is an improvement. However the MSKs, especially DHO38 is 10 dB do= wn now since the transformer does not work on such a high frequency. Anyway= , my focus is below 9 kHz and the levels from 9...25 kHz are still fair.=0A= There is however not really a S/N improvement and mains hum and all the man= made noise in the H field make the loops rather a game instead of a system= suitable to detect weak signals from Dreamers. Seems i have to change the = location of the loops. The old problem...=0A=0A73, Stefan/DK7FC=0A=0A=0AAm = 06.04.2012 10:42, schrieb Clemens Paul:=0A> Hi Stefan,=0A> =0A> I have meas= ured exactly this transformer about a year ago for a friend.=0A> He tried i= t for a (meanwhile abandoned) soundcard based SDR- TRX project=0A> for HF a= nd failed due to lack of sensitivity.=0A> I connected two of these XMFs bac= k to back and measured in a 50 Ohm environment=0A> with a VNA from 5-20kHz.= =0A> There was plenty of loss,IIRC something *around* 10dB per transformer.= =0A> That's not surprising after you have measured the DC resistance (high!= ).=0A> This may or may not be of importance for your application depending = on=0A> your AF level and type of matching (power matching versus voltage ma= tching).=0A> =0A> 73=0A> Clemens=0A> DL4RAJ=0A> =0A> =0A> ----- Original Me= ssage ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" =0A> To: =0A> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012= 4:21 PM=0A> Subject: VLF: Audio transformer test=0A> =0A> =0A>> VLF,=0A>> = =0A>> I just checked the amplitude and frequency respose of the audio trans= former i use to decouple my signals between soundcard and antenna. Just a s= imple test. They are in use in various applications, are cheep and small.= =0A>> Type, Distributor and datasheet: http://www.reichelt.de/Trenntrafos/N= FU-1-4/index.html?;ACTION=3D3;LA=3D444;GROUP=3DC54;GROUPID=3D3320;ARTICLE= =3D73039;START=3D0;SORT=3Dartnr;OFFSET=3D16;SID=3D32fRwi5qwQASAAACIkJWk5029= 17f27b61570f9f85c5c030e3f831#av_tabdata =0A>> =0A>> Looks they operate down= to 5 Hz which is excellent: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/VLF/Uebertrag= ertest.png=0A>> Also the wide range looks fine up to 20 kHz: http://dl.drop= box.com/u/19882028/VLF/Uebertragertest_wide.png=0A>> =0A>> In the pictures,= the upper SL instance is a frequency generator driving the headphone outpu= t of the soundcard. The lower instance records signals coming from the Mic = input.=0A>> =0A>> As a conclusion i found that the transformer is even suit= able for ZEVS receiving at 82 Hz.=0A>> =0A>> 73, Stefan/DK7FC=0A>> =0A>> = =0A> ---1740643075-1466849074-1333715256=:82083 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello LF,
 
recently I= performed some quick and dirty measurements on a Bourns LM-NP-1001-B1, usi= ng simply a sine wave generator (50 ohms output) and an oscilloscope (= 10 Mohms input). On the secondary I connected a 15 komhs load resistor (as = Clifton labs found that a load impedance of about 10 komhs was ideal for th= is transformer, see here for details: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20845911/Bourns%20L= M-NP-1001.doc).
My results (quite surprisingly) = seemed to show a -3dB point at around 210 kHz and only -0.4 dB @100kHz.
 
Regards
= Daniele

Da: Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
= A: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Inviato: Venerd= =EC 6 Aprile 2012 13:28
Oggetto:<= /span> Re: LF: Re: Audio transformer test

Hi Cle= mens,

In my application i use it to decouple my 2 orthogonal VLF loo= ps from the soundcard and do some "matching" of the low output impedance of= the loop to the high input impedance of the soundcard. The levels absolute signal levels r= ised arround 10 dB, so it is an improvement. However the MSKs, especially D= HO38 is 10 dB down now since the transformer does not work on such a high f= requency. Anyway, my focus is below 9 kHz and the levels from 9...25 kHz ar= e still fair.
There is however not really a S/N improvement and mains hu= m and all the man made noise in the H field make the loops rather a game in= stead of a system suitable to detect weak signals from Dreamers. Seems i ha= ve to change the location of the loops. The old problem...

73, Stefa= n/DK7FC


Am 06.04.2012 10:42, schrieb Clemens Paul:
> Hi St= efan,
>
> I have measured exactly this transformer about a yea= r ago for a friend.
> He tried it for a (meanwhile abandoned) soundca= rd based SDR- TRX project
> for HF and failed due to lack of sensitiv= ity.
> I connected two of these XMFs back to back and measured in a 50 Ohm environment
> with a VNA from 5-20kHz.
> There was= plenty of loss,IIRC something *around* 10dB per transformer.
> That'= s not surprising after you have measured the DC resistance (high!).
>= This may or may not be of importance for your application depending on
= > your AF level and type of matching (power matching versus voltage matc= hing).
>
> 73
> Clemens
> DL4RAJ
>
> =
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de&g= t;
> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&g= t;
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> Subject: VLF: Aud= io transformer test
>
>
>> VLF,
>>
>= > I just checked the amplitude and frequency respose of the audio transforme= r i use to decouple my signals between soundcard and antenna. Just a simple= test. They are in use in various applications, are cheep and small.
>= ;> Type, Distributor and datasheet: http://= www.reichelt.de/Trenntrafos/NFU-1-4/index.html?;ACTION=3D3;LA=3D444;GROUP= =3DC54;GROUPID=3D3320;ARTICLE=3D73039;START=3D0;SORT=3Dartnr;OFFSET=3D16;SI= D=3D32fRwi5qwQASAAACIkJWk502917f27b61570f9f85c5c030e3f831#av_tabdata >>
>> Looks they operate down to 5 Hz which is excellent:= http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/VLF/Uebertragertest.png>> Also the wide range looks fine up to 20 kHz: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/VLF/U= ebertragertest_wide.png
>>
>> In the pictures, the u= pper SL instance is a frequency generator driving the headphone output of t= he soundcard. The lower instance records signals coming from the Mic input.=
>>
>> As a conclusion i found that the transformer is e= ven suitable for ZEVS receiving at 82 Hz.
>>
>> 73, Stef= an/DK7FC
>>
>>
>



= ---1740643075-1466849074-1333715256=:82083--