Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dk04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CD777380000E7; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1S8GBo-0003Hc-Ry for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 19:18:20 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1S8GBo-0003HT-4O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 19:18:20 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1S8GBl-0001rK-Au for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 19:18:20 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AicFAA8/Yk9cF/gQ/2dsb2JhbABDFoIvgnehDIZuAYhygQiCCQEBBQgbCikuBQUDAxEEAQEoAwICOQ0JCAYTCAmHfQenb5IHiVBshTUzYwSNapMlhHmBNoEwgVQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,592,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="388305956" Received: from host-92-23-248-16.as13285.net (HELO malHP) ([92.23.248.16]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2012 19:18:11 +0000 Message-ID: <6A2A144CB28E4771BEEAD7A5F780198D@malHP> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <8CED0A22DE2C81B-268C-3E6C@webmail-d131.sysops.aol.com> <4F61F61E.5000302@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4F61F61E.5000302@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 19:17:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3508.1109 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3508.1109 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: DK7FC in VK? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01CD02E0.55C38820" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:490889184:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1db4084f6240c26318 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CD02E0.55C38820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I can see a short trace on 136.173 at 1900 utc approx on the vk2ddi = grabber. Could be anything of course !! g3kev From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer=20 Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 2:01 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: Dimitrios Tsifakis ; David - VK2DDI ; Steve - VK2XV=20 Subject: Re: LF: DK7FC in VK? Thank you Alan, Markus, Henny, Jean-Pierre, Jay,=20 It took a while until i belived that this is/was possible. Thank you for = the confirmations. I was sceptic if the LF world would call this a valid = detection. Now i hope to get better results and a even better proof = today. David/VK2DDI who runs the well known Berry Mountain Grabber will watch = out too, = http://www.users.on.net/~davroz/vk6di/argocaptures/argocaptures.html. He = receives in a low noise location... Not sure who of them is (still) member of this reflector so i put them = in CC. Due to Markus' work i see now that it actually may be possible to = receive a full call, if the path is open and QSB is low. In Dimitris' = DCF plot there is a peak of DCF to the time of my sunset and a stronger = one to the time of his sunrise. Inbetween this is the time when i will = be QRV. So i will start arround 17:30 UTC up to 20:30 UTC. Exciting times again on LF :-)=20 73, Stefan/DK7FC PS: I want to note that this 16464 km distant signal was received in an = urban location with a "micro probe" active E field antenna designed by = PA0RDT, not a large inv-L! ;-) Am 15.03.2012 10:07, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 Wow! I'm red-hot with envy ;-) Attached is another grabber screenshot comparison. The width from = DK7FC was halved, and the timescale of VK1SV shifted by 28 minutes. In = addition to the perfect "7", we also find earlier weak dashes on the low = DFCW frequency, between 18:05 and 18:20. This matches what seems to be = have been a transmit keying error, with the callsign ending early in an = "F" rather than a "C". =20 Congratulations to both Stefan and Dimitris on this fantastic result! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer mailto:Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de An: rsgb_lf_group mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Gamal Wahid Soegiono mailto:soegiono@web.de Verschickt: Mi, 14 Mrz 2012 11:42 pm Betreff: LF: DK7FC in VK? LF, Not yet a clear proof but probably i left a first trace in VK on 136.172 = kHz in my evening transmission a few hours ago. The VK1SV grabber ( http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~dxt103/grabber/)=20 showed this spectrogram at about 20:10 UTC:=20 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/is%20that%20a%207.jpg It looks pretty equal to a 7 i find. Note the time delay of the time stamp in the spectrogram and in the text = box in the left top corner. The correct time is that of the text box.=20 (We don't know where this delay may come from). The delay is exactly 30=20 minutes. So that 7 must have been on air at about 19:15 UTC. This exactly matches = with my own grabber capture which can be seen at=20 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/EU60.jpg Also the frequency matches as well as the DFCW element length and the=20 DFCW shift of my DFCW-180 transmission. As a comparison i generated a 7=20 in a spectrogram with equal setting as used by Dimitris/VK1SV. Then i=20 cut that 7 and inserted it into the VK grabber capture, see:=20 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/7%20comparison.png Of course we will go on trying in the next time and hope to get a even=20 better proof. In that mode there is little room, i.e. time to receive a=20 complete call. The time is very limited. But maybe we will see a F=20 tomorrow :-) I'm very optimistic you know. That is a path of 16464 km :-)=20 http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DJN49IK00WD&from=3DQF44MT 73, Stefan/DK7FC PS: Will be quiet tonite due to VLF receive tests. Am 14.03.2012 21:04, schrieb Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer: > LF, > > I'm somewhat confused. Can somone look at this link and tell me what=20 > he sees: http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~dxt103/grabber/ > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CD02E0.55C38820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well I can see a short trace on 136.173 at 1900 utc approx on the = vk2ddi=20 grabber. Could be anything of course !!
g3kev
 
 
From: Stefan = Sch=C3=A4fer
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 2:01 PM
Cc: Dimitrios Tsifakis ; David -=20 VK2DDI ; Steve -=20 VK2XV
Subject: Re: LF: DK7FC in VK?
 
Thank=20 you Alan, Markus, Henny, Jean-Pierre, Jay,

It took a while until = i=20 belived that this is/was possible. Thank you for the confirmations. I = was=20 sceptic if the LF world would call this a valid detection. Now i hope to = get=20 better results and a even better proof today.

David/VK2DDI who = runs the=20 well known Berry Mountain Grabber will watch out too, http://www.users.on.net/~davroz/vk6di/argocaptures/argocaptures.html= .=20 He receives in a low noise location...
Not sure who of them is = (still) member=20 of this reflector so i put them in CC.

Due to Markus' work i see = now that=20 it actually may be possible to receive a full call, if the path is open = and QSB=20 is low. In Dimitris' DCF plot there is a peak of DCF to the time of my = sunset=20 and a stronger one to the time of his sunrise. Inbetween this is the = time when i=20 will be QRV. So i will start arround 17:30 UTC up to 20:30 = UTC.

Exciting=20 times again on LF :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

PS: I want to note = that=20 this 16464 km distant signal was received in an urban location with a = "micro=20 probe" active E field antenna designed by PA0RDT, not a large inv-L!=20 ;-)


Am 15.03.2012 10:07, schrieb Markus Vester:=20
Wow! I'm red-hot with envy ;-)
 
Attached is another grabber screenshot comparison. The width from = DK7FC=20 was halved, and the timescale of VK1SV shifted by 28 minutes. In = addition to=20 the perfect "7", we also find earlier weak dashes on the low DFCW = frequency,=20 between 18:05 and 18:20. This matches what seems to be have been a = transmit=20 keying error, with the callsign ending early in an "F" rather than a=20 "C".  
 
Congratulations to both Stefan and Dimitris on this fantastic=20 result!
 
Best 73,
 
Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20 Mitteilung-----
Von: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer mailto:Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Cc:=20 Gamal Wahid Soegiono mailto:soegiono@web.de
Verschickt:= Mi, 14=20 Mrz 2012 11:42 pm
Betreff: LF: DK7FC in VK?

LF,

Not yet a clear proof but probably i left a first trace in VK on 136.172 =

kHz in my evening transmission a few hours ago.

The VK1SV grabber ( http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~dxt103/grabber=
/)=20
showed this spectrogram at about 20:10 UTC:=20
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/is%20that%20=
a%207.jpg

It looks pretty equal to a 7 i find.

Note the time delay of the time stamp in the spectrogram and in the text =

box in the left top corner. The correct time is that of the text box.=20
(We don't know where this delay may come from). The delay is exactly 30=20
minutes.
So that 7 must have been on air at about 19:15 UTC. This exactly matches =

with my own grabber capture which can be seen at=20
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/EU60.jpg=


Also the frequency matches as well as the DFCW element length and the=20
DFCW shift of my DFCW-180 transmission. As a =
comparison i generated a 7=20
in a spectrogram with equal setting as used by =
Dimitris/VK1SV. Then i=20
cut that 7 and inserted it into the VK grabber =
capture, see:=20
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/7%20comparison.png

Of course we will go on trying in the next time and hope to get a even=20
better proof. In that mode there is little room, i.e. time to receive a=20
complete call. The time is very limited. But maybe we will see a F=20
tomorrow :-)
I'm very optimistic you know.

That is a path of 16464 km :-)=20
http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DJN49IK00WD&a=
mp;from=3DQF44MT

73, Stefan/DK7FC

PS: Will be quiet tonite due to VLF receive tests.

Am 14.03.2012 21:04, schrieb Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer:
> LF,
>
> I'm somewhat confused. Can somone look at this link and tell me =
what=20
> he sees: http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~dxt103/grabber=
/
>
> 73, Stefan/DK7FC
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