Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 26ACD3800013B; Thu, 2 Feb 2012 14:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Rt1GG-00086E-Ky for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:19:56 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Rt1GG-000865-2j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:19:56 +0000 Received: from rhcavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.129] helo=cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Rt1GE-0005rg-Mj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:19:56 +0000 X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-ID: A8DFC138098.A778F X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DFC138098 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:19:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540FD31E702 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:19:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:19:40 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:19:40 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: QRSS3 "challenge" Thread-Index: Aczh0XfEMIRHr55gSI2lkXrRHYVCngABC1Eo Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: QRSS3 "challenge" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102CB0B68CCD77ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:409675424:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4f2ae894122b X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102CB0B68CCD77ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Graham, maybe that will be the next step. But let's start with something "easy". BTW: I did a test how many bits Opera can miss before decoding fails. Again, starting "easy" just by ommitting the n first bits and feed Opera wi= th a shorter sequence. For a no noise signal Opera decoded fine for as less as 96 bit (from the or= iginal 239/240). Impressive. But the I started adding noise and found out that the SNR theshhold increas= ed from -23dB (for the full 239/240 bit sequence) to +15dB (for the 96 bit = sequence). I expected some difference (otherwise FEC would be woth nothing)= , but not as much as 38dB. It was just a single test for the 96 bit sequence, so that result is give o= r take some dB. Next days will be busy, but later I intend to make a better study, take som= e intermediate steps and more than 1 try. Cursious what will show up. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2012 18:36 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: QRSS3 "challenge" Ah.. missing is the qsb , to remove sections of the plot so these = must be ground wave tests :- ) From: Rik Strobbe Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:17 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS3 "challenge" Dear all, as mentioned some days ago I generated a whole series of Opera, WSPR and QR= SS3 audio with a known SNR. For Opera and WSPR it was easy to determine the lowest SNR for a proper dec= ode. But for QRSS3 it is much more difficult as it depends on the operators= "sharp eye". It must be somewhere in the range of -24 to -28dB SNR (@ 2.5k= Hz BW). Today I did put all the QRSS3 screenshots in this range in a website, where= you can fill in what you see (decode) for each screenshot. I would like to invite all of you to give it a try and send me the results = (the more entries the better the statistics). After some time (Feb 10th) will put all results into some nice tables and g= raphs and make them available. Of course no personal (individual) results will be published. But based on = the results every participant (who keeps his results) can see where he ends= . The "QRSS3 Challenge" can be found at http://on7yd.strobbe.eu/QRSS/ 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102CB0B68CCD77ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Graham,
 
maybe that will be the n= ext step.
But let's start with something "easy".
 
BTW:
I did a test how<= /a> many bits Opera can miss before&nbs= p;decoding fails.
Again, st= arting "easy" just by ommitti= ng the n first bits and feed Opera with= a shorter sequence.
For a no noise signal Opera decoded fine for as = ;less as 96 bit (from the original 239/240). Impr= essive.
But the I started adding noise<= a> and found out that the SNR = theshhold increased from -23dB (for the full 239/240 bit sequence) to +15dB (for the 96 b= it sequence). I expected some diff= erence (otherwise FEC would be woth nothing), but not as&= nbsp;much as 38dB.
It was just a single test for the 96= bit sequence, so that result is=  give or take some dB.
Next days will be busy= , but later I intend to make a bet= ter study, take some intermediat= e steps and more than 1 try.
Cursious what will show up.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD  - OR7T
=  
Van: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Graham [= g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 2 februari 2012 18:36
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: QRSS3 "challenge"

Ah.. missing  is the  qsb  , to  remove  sect= ions of the  plot  so  these  must  be  groun= d wave  tests :- )

Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: LF: QRSS3 "challenge"

Dear all,

 

as mentioned some days ago I generated a whole= series of Opera, WSPR and QRSS3 audio wit= h a known SNR.

For Opera and WSPR it<= a> was easy to determine the lowest SNR=  for a proper decode. But for QRSS3 it is much more difficult<= a> as it depends on the operators "sharp eye". It must&nbs= p;be somewhere in the range of -24 to -28dB = SNR (@ 2.5kHz BW).

Today I did put all the QRSS3 screensh= ots in this range in a website, where you can fill in what you&nbs= p;see (decode) for each screenshot.

I would like to= invite all of you to give it a tr= y and send me the results (the more ent= ries the better the statistics).

After some time (Feb 10th) will= put all results into some = nice tables and graphs and make them= available.

Of course no&nb= sp;personal (individual) results will=  be published. But based on= the results every participant (who&n= bsp;keeps his results) can see where he<= a> ends.

 

The "QRSS3 Challenge= " can be found at http://on7y= d.strobbe.eu/QRSS/

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T<= a>

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