Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 439C138000085; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RwBs5-0007LF-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:16:05 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RwBs5-0007L6-3I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:16:05 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RwBs3-0000Y0-KK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:16:05 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApMBANxbNk9cGSRc/2dsb2JhbAAMOK04hTIBAQEBA4EJCwkPCSUPAkYTCAEBulqLPQsWFgVNAQSDWiMJhBgEjWWaMQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,401,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="527266385" Received: from host-92-25-36-92.as13285.net (HELO [192.168.2.5]) ([92.25.36.92]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with ESMTP; 11 Feb 2012 12:15:39 +0000 Message-ID: <4F365BEA.70302@talktalk.net> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:15:38 +0000 From: qrss User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: WE2XGR/6 OP8 & OP4 tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010800020508080201060206" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:417166144:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4f365c686cc4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010800020508080201060206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Graham I am far from anti, would just like to see some proof with my own eyes, with an hour between mode changes propagation can of course be totally different. From my example below within 1 minute of each other OP8 will *look* as if it is doing better. 17:32 500 G3ZJO de G4MDH Op4 104 km -26 dB in Wootton Bassett with 0.0002w + 5m inv.L - rx 17:27 500 G3ZJO de G4MDH Op8 104 km -33 dB in Wootton Bassett with 0.0002w + 5m inv.L - rx Trouble is I was testing on 50MHz last night and saw the same results OP2 failed to decode more often than OP1. Here are the first 6 transmissions when there was little Aircraft activity. 21:50 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -10 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 21:49 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -12 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 21:47 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -13 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 21:46 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -17 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 21:44 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -16 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 21:40 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -25 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl When there is the chance of Aircraft enhancement OPERA seems pretty robust Doppler causing only rare problems. Most often, with power levels set for no direct path decodes, both OP1 and OP2 'hop on to Easy Jet for a ride'. 22:32 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -8 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl 22:31 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -6 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl We still have to try both stations beaming to Flight Path Hot Spots to try parallel Doppler when there in no chance of direct decode but I think OPERA will do it. Yes some of this mail is O/T for LF. Eddie G3ZJO On 11/02/2012 00:29, Graham wrote: > Interesting post in the yahoo group > May be a long haul OP2 test would give a useful comparison , > other than ground wave , I have not seen , the longer OP16 > produce reliable decodes on 500 , OP8 may be the better > choice , but 2/4 have not been tested ? > G. > WE2XGR/6 [aka WE6XGR-OPERA mode call sign] I ran OP8 for an hour and > went to OP4 for an hour and back to OP8 for final hour. OP8 certainly > shows promise as a good compromise speed. On OP8 many decodes were all > the way down to -35 [G0KTN]. Best I got on OP4 tonite was a -30. All > transmitting tonight was at 200 W and that is 20 W ERP with my antenna. > > Thanks to the following for all the decodes; > > > > G4WGT > > G0KTN [-35 USING OP8] > > WU9Q > > WW2R > > AC4IU > > W3NF > > N4FRE > > K3SIW > > N6RY > > VE4XC --------------010800020508080201060206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Graham

I am far from anti, would just like to see some proof with my own eyes, with an hour between mode changes propagation can of course be totally different.

From my example below within 1 minute of each other OP8 will look as if it is doing better.
 
17:32    500 G3ZJO de G4MDH Op4 104 km -26 dB in Wootton Bassett with 0.0002w + 5m inv.L - rx
17:27    500 G3ZJO de G4MDH Op8 104 km -33 dB in Wootton Bassett with 0.0002w + 5m inv.L - rx

Trouble is I was testing on 50MHz last night and saw the same results OP2 failed to decode more often than OP1.
Here are the first 6 transmissions when there was little Aircraft activity.
21:50 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -10 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
21:49 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -12 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
21:47 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -13 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
21:46 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -17 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
21:44 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -16 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
21:40 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -25 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl

When there is the chance of Aircraft enhancement  OPERA seems pretty robust  Doppler causing only rare problems. Most often, with  power levels set for no direct path decodes, both OP1 and OP2 'hop on to Easy Jet for a ride'.

22:32 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op1 127 km -8 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl
22:31 50700 G3ZJO de G6AVK Op2 127 km -6 dB in Essex with 0.5w + 4element at 5.5m agl

We still have to try both stations beaming to Flight Path Hot Spots to try parallel Doppler when there in no chance of direct decode but I think OPERA will do it.

Yes some of this mail is O/T for LF.

Eddie G3ZJO

On 11/02/2012 00:29, Graham wrote:
Interesting post  in the  yahoo  group
 
May be a  long  haul  OP2   test  would  give a  useful comparison , other  than ground  wave , I have not  seen , the  longer  OP16  produce  reliable  decodes on  500 , OP8  may  be  the  better  choice , but  2/4 have not  been  tested  ?
 
G.
 
WE2XGR/6 [aka WE6XGR-OPERA mode call sign] I ran OP8 for an hour and went to OP4 for an hour and back to OP8 for final hour. OP8 certainly shows promise as a good compromise speed. On OP8 many decodes were all the way down to -35 [G0KTN]. Best I got on OP4 tonite was a -30. All transmitting tonight was at 200 W and that is 20 W ERP with my antenna.
> Thanks to the following for all the decodes;
>
> G4WGT
> G0KTN [-35 USING OP8]
> WU9Q
> WW2R
> AC4IU
> W3NF
> N4FRE
> K3SIW
> N6RY
> VE4XC

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