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20 Feb 2012 21:41:53 +0000 GMT From: "Ken" To: References: <002a01ccee25$c2416cd0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4F3F800B.2000201@xs4all.nl> <003e01ccee2d$49b17f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <007f01ccee6c$3eca0f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <6ADDBBA8CD0B4DC38D7950C75294B505@AGB> <004601cceee8$7566da80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <2AB0A82B2A6F4A0ABCD855D8AB420777@lindavideo> <000f01cceef9$bbcbe130$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20939DDAB9A34C99BF9854521FFDF361@lindavideo> <000d01ccefb7$0195a620$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <5F2709601E5A4F4EA48E633CA19F728D@lindavideo> <003901ccefed$e7963410$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:41:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3B214193E23B41A9853E9C87FF649BCB@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <003901ccefed$e7963410$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Aczv7iufWGwPshBqTFSSCEgJ7EVLHwAJ2yBg DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: DDS Oscillators Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01CCF018.75317A80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:485593856:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d248.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40494f42be7c5950 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CCF018.75317A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mal They are Ebay from Hong Kong, prices vary but all about the same when = you include p&p, delivery was very quick less than a week.. I purchased a 0 - 5MHz cased model because I was not sure how the = controls would be presented on the pcb version, cost was =A351.00, they come with = a plug top power unit, one some versions the power is via a 3.5mm jack = socket, others via a USB connector, I specified 3.5mm jack, it came as USB with = a power unit so need to make a interface power lead, you will need to = contact them via Ebay to make them understand which version, other very = satisfied with it. Here are some Ebay item numbers=20 Cased models: 2MHz: 170674937558, 3MHz: 290605547500. 5MHz:290614271439 Un-cased: 5MHz:290593851947 If you go into Ebay, in the tile line type in DDS Function signal = generator and =91All Categories=92 you will find a list of them. Anything else mail me=20 73s =20 Ken M0KHW _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 20 February 2012 16:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Ken Where did u get the 0 - 5 Mhz dds osc from ?=20 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:11 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. Ok you are bang on the line limit. I hope to be back on LF soon, constructing a HV power supply, the original project was designed for = the 500kHz 10w ERP limits, now starting to re-design for the new LF band. = Lucky they don=92t use 470/475kHz Ifs any more. Just purchased 0 =96 5MHz DDS = osc so generating the change in frequency is no problem, but need to do new = input filters for the RX pre-amp, driver board for the 23W TX , transformers = and PA for the valve TX not for the appliance operators you can tell an appliance operator he has no solder burns. On a different note have not heard anything regarding Finbar recently is he ok? Regards. Ken M0KHW =20 _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 20 February 2012 10:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Ken Yes the filters are fitted. I know how the system works as you describe = it. Since the common denominator is the copper line I thought the RF would effect both. My line is probably 3 miles to the telephone exchange via various junction boxes etc and 30 plus years old. Not ideal and never intended to carry high speed data. The engineer did say my line was = noisy. The whole country needs to be re-cabled with fibre optic cable now that wideband data is here to stay and make life easy for the Appliance = Operator =20 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. The telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz =96 3400Hz speech = band directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the = DSLAM in the exchange, that is why you have a =91Micro Filter=92 at each = telephone outlet in the house, do you have a =91Micro Filter at each telephone outlet? Regards. Ken M0KHW =20 =20 _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 11:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Ken info No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with the telephone regardless of power on any band. Normally it is not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem = with Opera because of the data base feedback facility 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. I had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if you = are on a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present will = have a very poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece of cable = I could find and they made no difference, only a few watts at 500kHz and = the lower HF bands would cause the DSL router to drop out and re-train up. I = had my ex (pre-retirement) colleagues from BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, (2.8km in length with 30m of drop wire) = as part of a national survey, the line without the common mode chokes had = no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less than 10dB, with a few watts = of TX power with and without CMCs the remaining carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another cause could be if = you have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external screw terminals causing =91Rectified Joints=92 like the rusty bolt effect on radio = masts, water getting into older types of drop wire can cause corrosion on the plated steel conductors. Hope this helps. Ken ex-BT Adastral Parkl M0KHW =20 =20 _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 09:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Graham I have some filtering and the phone is not effected only the data stream taking some hits.=20 It could well be an earth loop problem, must investigate further. Its a long time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that = route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but these days its Cairnryan/Larne The mode is popular because it is easy to implement especially with CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers.=20 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 R Mal =20 Yes I cam across this some time ago with the first broad band router, I brought one by edimax , not supposed to be the best , = but had a metal case and a real fcc licence , that was fine , till = adsl2 , the net-gear modem supplied was 100% u/s with any Rf on any = band .... =20 I brought the the newer version of the edimax , its not as Rf = proof as the old adsl-1 version, but for some reason , only takes a = hit on 160/80 =20 =20 Not too much you can do , apart from the usual Rf chokes , = could try a radio card from the router to the PC , if that's where the = Rf is being picked up ..unplug everything , see if it crashes with just the phone line connected ? but with just the driver , sounds a = bit like a earth link .. depends how you have the station wired up , i = am in the top front room of the house , so no direct earth , that's out in the shed , where the tuners are , but I need to bond everything together to stop cable pick up.. =20 73 -G.. =20 =20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Yes Graham This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not quick enough. It happens with very little RF being transmitted at the driver = chip stage without the PA switched on. de mal/g3kev =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Mal, =20 Are you sure the internet/broadband connection is not being = frozen by the TX . ?=20 =20 I have this problem on 160 and 80 for some reason , 10 watts and = the web traffic stops but oddly , no problem on the other bands ...so you can miss the incoming spots .. check the psk map and you will see 'who' is decoding you ..=20 =20 This is one of the reasons a server handling the ros & opera = s/n reports would be a good addition . but the problem is finding some one or group who could construct such a piece of software .. it = can be located on the sever JR runs .... still looking for offers = on that ..=20 =20 73 -G.=20 =20 From: mal hamilton =20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Albert But why am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. You are S9 audible =20 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Albert =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal hamilton schreef:=20 mf Does anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database feedback from anyone=20 mal/g3kev =20 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE JO21NJ 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht 10:16 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton 10:16 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4 -4 dB in JO11LE 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde JO33DE 10:15 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + = 5m inv L-rx mini whip ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CCF018.75317A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Mal

They are Ebay = =A0from Hong Kong, prices vary but all about the same = when you include p&p, delivery was very quick less than a = week..

=A0I purchased a 0 = - =A05MHz cased model because I was not sure how the controls would be presented = on the pcb version, cost was =A351.00, they come with a plug top power unit, one = some versions the power is via a 3.5mm jack socket, others via a USB = connector, I specified 3.5mm jack, it came as USB with a power unit so need to make a interface power lead, you will need to contact them via Ebay to make = them understand which version, other very satisfied with = it.

Here are some Ebay = item numbers

Cased models: = 2MHz: 170674937558, 3MHz: 290605547500.=A0 = 5MHz:290614271439

Un-cased: 5MHz:290593851947

If you go into = Ebay, in the tile line type in=A0 DDS Function signal generator=A0=A0 and = ‘All Categories’=A0 you will find a list of = them.

Anything else mail = me

73s

 

Ken

M0KHW

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 20 February 2012 = 16:34
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Ken

Where did u get the 0 - 5 Mhz dds = osc from ?

de mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ken =

Sent:<= /b> Monday, February 20, 2012 11:11 = AM

Subject: RE: LF: opera 500

 

Hi = Mal.

Ok you are bang on = the line limit. I hope to be back on LF soon, constructing a HV power = supply, the original project was designed for the 500kHz 10w ERP limits, now = starting to re-design for the new LF band. Lucky they don’t use 470/475kHz Ifs = any more. Just purchased 0 – 5MHz DDS osc so generating the change in = frequency is no problem, but need to do new input filters for the RX pre-amp, = driver board for the 23W TX , transformers and PA for  the valve TX not = for the appliance operators you can tell an appliance operator he has no = solder  burns. On a different note have not heard anything regarding Finbar = recently is he ok?

Regards.=

Ken  = M0KHW

 

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 20 February 2012 = 10:04
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Hi Ken

Yes the filters are fitted. I know = how the system works as you describe it. Since the common denominator is the copper line I thought the RF would effect both. My line is = probably 3 miles to the telephone exchange via various junction boxes etc and 30 = plus years old. Not ideal and never intended to carry high speed = data. The engineer did say my line was noisy.

The whole country needs to be = re-cabled with fibre optic cable now that wideband data is here to stay and = make life easy for the Appliance Operator

 

 mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ken =

Sent:<= /b> Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:26 = PM

Subject: RE: LF: opera 500

 

Hi = Mal.

The telephone = portion is speech in the standard 300Hz – 3400Hz speech band directly on the = copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the DSLAM in the exchange, that = is why you have a ‘Micro Filter’ at each telephone outlet in the = house, do you have a ‘Micro Filter at each telephone = outlet?

Regards.=

Ken

M0KHW

 

 

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012 = 11:29
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Tnx Ken info

No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with the telephone regardless of = power on any band.

Normally it is not a problem with = CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem with Opera because of the data base = feedback facility

73 de mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Ken =

Sent:<= /b> Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 = AM

Subject: RE: LF: opera 500

 

Hi = Mal.

I had the same = problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if you are on a long local = line especially if it is overhead, the most likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present will have a very poor S/N = ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece of cable I could find and they = made no difference, only a few watts at 500kHz and the lower HF bands would = cause the DSL router to drop out and re-train up. I had my ex (pre-retirement) = colleagues  from BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, = (2.8km in length with 30m of drop wire) as part of a national survey, the line = without the common mode chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less = than 10dB, with a few watts of TX power with and without CMCs the remaining = carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another cause = could be if you have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external screw terminals causing ‘Rectified Joints’ like the rusty bolt = effect on radio masts, water getting into older types of drop wire can cause = corrosion on the plated steel conductors.

Hope this = helps.

Ken  &nbs= p; ex-BT Adastral Parkl

M0KHW

   <= o:p>

 

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012 = 09:26
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera = 500

 

Graham

I have some filtering and the = phone is not effected only the data stream taking some hits. =

It could well be an earth = loop problem, must investigate further.

Its a long time since I have = been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but = these days its Cairnryan/Larne

The mode is popular because = it is easy to implement especially with CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers. =

73 de = mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Graham

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

R = Mal

 

Yes  I cam  = across  this  some  time ago  with the  first  = broad  band  router,  I brought  one  by  edimax , = not  supposed to be the  best , but  had a metal  case  and  a  real   fcc  licence , that  was fine , till adsl2  , the  net-gear modem supplied  was  100% u/s   with  any  Rf  on = any  band ....

 

I brought the  = the  newer version of the  edimax , its   not  as  Rf = proof as the  old adsl-1  version, but  for  some  reason  , only  takes a  hit  on = 160/80  

 

Not  too  = much  you  can  do  , apart  from the  =  usual  Rf chokes , could  try  a  radio  card  from = the  router to the  PC , if that's where  the  Rf is = being  picked  up  ..unplug   everything  , see  = if it  crashes  with  just the  phone  line  connected ? but  with just the  driver , sounds a bit  = like a earth  link .. depends how  you  have the  = station  wired up , i am  in the  top  front  room of = the  house , so  no  direct  earth  , that's  = out  in the  shed , where the  tuners  are ,  but  = I need  to  bond  everything  together to  = stop  cable  pick up..

 

73 = -G..

 

 

 

From: mal hamilton

Sent: = Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM

Subject: Re: LF: = opera 500

 

Yes = Graham

This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not quick enough. It happens with very = little RF being transmitted at the driver chip stage without the PA switched = on.

de = mal/g3kev

 

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Graham

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

Mal,=

 

Are  you  sure = the  internet/broadband  connection  is not  being  = frozen  by the  TX . ?

 

I have this  = problem  on 160 and  80  for  some  reason , 10 watts  and the  web traffic stops

but oddly , no  problem = on the  other bands ...so  you  can  miss  = the  incoming  spots ..

check  the  = psk  map and you  will  see  'who'  is  = decoding you ..

 

This  is  one of = the  reasons  a  server handling the   ros  & opera   s/n  reports   would  be  = a  good  addition  . but the  problem  is  = finding  some one or group  who could construct  such a  = piece of  software .. it can  be  located   on  the  sever  JR runs  ....  still  looking  for  offers  on that  ..

 

73 -G. =

 

From: mal hamilton

Sent: = Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM

Subject: Re: LF: = opera 500

 

Tnx = Albert

But why am I not seeing this = info on the right hand windiow. You are S9 audible

 

mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Albert

Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 = AM

Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

 

Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal = hamilton = schreef:

mf

Does anyone copy my op4 on = 501.5 at present. No database feedback from anyone

mal/g3kev

 

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE = JO21NJ

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht

=

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4  -4 dB in = JO11LE

10:16 =    500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam

=

10:16    500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB = in Lucaswolde JO33DE

10:15 =    500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + 5m inv L-rx mini whip

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CCF018.75317A80--