Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dk06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E26953800009C; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:33:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Rryqa-0005PX-RI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:33:08 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Rryqa-0005PM-DZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:33:08 +0000 Received: from mail16.primus.ca ([216.254.141.183] helo=mail-01.primus.ca) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RryqX-0001L1-PB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:33:08 +0000 Received: from dyn-dsl-bb-76-75-125-211.nrtco.net ([76.75.125.211] helo=Bigmachine.magma.ca) by mail-01.primus.ca with esmtpa (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RryqV-0001yx-33 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:33:04 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:33:35 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Bill de Carle In-Reply-To: <4F26E836.4010106@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4F246297.4020304@charter.net> <50DDDC5E26754BC284D529DCB4A1C2C3@White> <4F258CB5.2090105@charter.net> <4F25DA96.3080607@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4F25F3D0.70503@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4F26E06D.2000507@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4F26E836.4010106@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Authenticated: ve2iq - dyn-dsl-bb-76-75-125-211.nrtco.net (Bigmachine.magma.ca) [76.75.125.211] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Message-Id: Subject: Re: VLF: WOLF, next step.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:419677760:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1db40a4f270cc40295 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Stefan: I wouldn't change the phase reversal time - if=20 you announce to the world you're transmitting=20 WOLF-10 that means phase transitions can occur=20 only at exact multiples of 100 milliseconds -=20 everyone's receiver will make that=20 assumption. Don't worry about sync-ing phase=20 shifts to the zero crossings of the audio=20 waveform, let's see if your computer-to-computer=20 test works first. You can specify a relaxed=20 tolerance for the receiver: e.g. +/- 2 Hz away=20 from the nominal carrier frequency to allow for=20 slightly different sample rates at Tx,=20 Rx. Ultimately for long term coherent=20 integration both Tx and Rx must agree on the=20 timing but for a first test with a strong signal=20 (just to see if everything is working), you won't=20 need that. For longer integration times it is=20 probably better to use a GPS-stabilized DDS to=20 directly generate the WOLF signal at the Tx=20 end. I find sound card sampling rates are stable=20 enough for WOLF once everything has warmed up a=20 bit. It's not the small instabilities that will=20 hurt, it's that the absolute sample rate must be=20 known accurately and entered to allow the Rx=20 clock to keep same time as the Tx clock. Did you=20 download that .wav file I made last night? I=20 intended that only for testing your Tx to see=20 what the sidebands look like with no waveform=20 envelope shaping. Don't expect anyone else to=20 copy that message unless your sample rate is very=20 close to 24000 s/s and the signal strength at the=20 Rx is high enough to enable decoding within seconds, not minutes or hours. Good luck! 73, Bill VE2IQ At 01:57 PM 1/30/2012, Stefan DK7FC wrote: >Bill, > >Thought about the zero-crosings. Does it=20 >actually make sense to change the phase reversal=20 >time? Since the samplerate is drifting anyway,=20 >there will be a small time difference between a=20 >phase shift and there zero-crossing. Also -if=20 >the samplerate would be exactly 24 kS/s-, the=20 >time when the phase shift occurrs can be=20 >somewhere, i.e. wouldn't be sync'ed to the zero-crossing. Right? >So it may be easier (also for the receiving=20 >side) to let it remain at 0.1 seconds. >Comments welcome. > >73, Stefan/DK7FC > > >Am 30.01.2012 19:24, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer: >>Changed the phase reversal time from 0.1 s to=20 >>0.111482720178372 s (=3D1000/8970Hz) Seems to work. > > >Am 30.01.2012 01:37, schrieb Bill de Carle: >>Can your Tx handle abrupt phase shifts every=20 >>100 msec? We can arrange for the phase shifts=20 >>to occur only at zero-crossings of the 8970-Hz sinewave.