Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0342B38000081; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 03:52:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RrQUO-0007he-5s for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:51:56 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RrQUN-0007hV-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:51:55 +0000 Received: from mail-iy0-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RrQUL-0001gL-MT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:51:55 +0000 Received: by iaeh11 with SMTP id h11so7150475iae.16 for ; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:51:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9nW6aSlscp2xDl0BPZx4dW7gHVv1fXaW0MDjR2VYfYw=; b=CrbEs570swu7dd8ajbzHAHtRr8zPrIojbSdiGByF0Avr+P7vBNdNS8rxiGUz/gk17z CpRpIQglPuuOhHk9JYfz0mGbv8HG5x4JS5uiRuWGDmBOzFyPHrPKruZjRoJg7sy2CDYO 9iQlgyv5YRY6GAxigLAO1yhxZeO2imRA/KYrY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.165.135 with SMTP id k7mr8837642icy.32.1327827107175; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.12.140 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:51:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F247AE2.2080306@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <3992CC59F7A14AA694628529761EC5DE@AGB> <4F1F695F.7020400@charter.net> <4F247AE2.2080306@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:51:47 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: WOLF DATA MODE S/N FIG ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:427882656:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d007.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554f2508e37727 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Definitely - and I maintain any coherent mode will win out over non coherent ones where the path will support it. And LF will support coherency, especially at 10Hz rates. Wolf has rather been forgotton, as the average LF punter just doesn't seem to approve of high tech approaches, and seems, to my view anyway, scared of soundcard modes. Opera has taken then by storm, I suspect, mainly because its new; is the only data mode than really does offer really narrow band working, hence several dB more sensitive than WSPR. Its been well engineered - very well buy the look of it - but is still hampered by being non-coherent on-off keyed. So by definition, must be several dB down on coherent modes, when normalised for bandwidth. What I don't know about Wolf, are any details about how the decoding is done. Although Opera isn't documented, it is quite obvious how the decoding must work to acheive the performance it does, and is no doubt very similar to that in WSPR/JTxx which is well documented But the overlying of repeated messages in Wolf is in a different area, and perhaps its author could say a bit more. In fact, I'd say Wolf has beenhiding its possibilities in the bushes, capable of far greater development than non coherent modes and probably even more effective on the LF bands than OP32. Don't forget, the first Transatlantic reception of 73kHz used Wolf. Back in the last century Andy www.g4jnt.com 2012/1/28 Stefan Sch=E4fer : > ...so Andy, would you suggest it may be useful even on VLF, where the pha= se > is rather stable over a longer time? > > 73, Stefan > > Am 28.01.2012 20:18, schrieb Andy Talbot: > >>