Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 530DC380000AC; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:11:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RrFY0-0003RI-6l for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:10:56 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RrFXz-0003R9-Ld for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:10:55 +0000 Received: from mail-iy0-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RrFXw-000836-Rp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:10:55 +0000 Received: by iaeh11 with SMTP id h11so6487255iae.16 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:10:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yfZAt71bThF6UZH7dni41DRqjHyu44tTJ/EWUjr+ZEY=; b=s87Y72GoO36UQvT6cv4utAeU2HZyYCXmauu8KS9sLxliNjw2xpxyI45GUAdFfGEzZv wn2o1xsHa5uoxvpcZFwAz8omjABOeRvLgE6CNzMsQSgLzrLGCmJHgFQPM8DZIk89VjkW nD/foKoKKgDHLKGnaP4pZtwOiv3aZutIwx9zQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.89.196 with SMTP id bq4mr11790688igb.26.1327785045313; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.12.140 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:10:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <3992CC59F7A14AA694628529761EC5DE@AGB> <4F1F695F.7020400@charter.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:10:45 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: WOLF DATA MODE S/N FIG ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:492414464:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d275.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554f24648b1c56 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Hi Jim .. If it "had" to reacquire the PN sequence every frame, there could be no coherent addition. Since the data transmissions are contiguous, I assume it will be continuously locked to the running code, using a sliding correlator. Provided the code is being generated locally, it can be always compared against that received and a continuous correlation performed. Teh result of this nudges the locally generated copy to keep it in phase Its what GPS does. The underlying GPS data is modulated at 1kHz which is the PN code repeat rate, and is the bandwidth required (at least in the first two generation receiver types) that initial lockup works with. Once the system is locked, it can drop to the lower 50Hz effective bandwidth corresponding to the transmitted data. So, until the third generation three dimensional deep search receivers arrived round about 2006 - 7, GPS lockup needed 13dB more signal than for tracking. Wolf would appear to behave similarly. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 28 January 2012 20:30, James Moritz wrote= : > Dear Andy, LF Group, > > >> So by continuously looking at repeated message, the effective >> bandwidth will get lower by the average of the number of times it has >> been repeated. =A0 Two repeats 3dB or half BW, 4 repeats 6dB , 8 >> repeeats 9dB =A0etc etc >> >> Does this seem about right ? > > > > Well, I cannot claim any expert knowledge, but I'm sure that must be the > intention. Presumably the limit to which this can be done is determined b= y > the ability of the decoder to successfully detect the pseudo-random > sequence. I guess it has to do this separately for each 96 second message= in > order to get the carrier phase for that message. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU >