Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 21F9138000092; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 07:19:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RpfL2-0005Bc-UL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:19:00 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RpfL2-0005BT-8R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:19:00 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s29.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.40]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RpfL1-0005Ym-8h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:19:00 +0000 Received: from BLU153-W46 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s29.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 24 Jan 2012 04:18:52 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [24.117.93.215] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 03:18:51 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4F1E9D6E.30409@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4F1DC805.9000808@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <010201ccda2f$113adc50$4001a8c0@lark>,<4F1E9D6E.30409@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2012 12:18:52.0346 (UTC) FILETIME=[559EE9A0:01CCDA92] X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_43ad7ec8-f206-4eee-9987-e5fc5203f102_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: Very special condx over the pole? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:485018144:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4f1ea1dc76a7 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_43ad7ec8-f206-4eee-9987-e5fc5203f102_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan/Alan - As Alan quite rightly states I bemoan the fact that Proton ev= ents occur (well at least at LF/MF) - It knocks the paths right off for day= s=2C nay weeks sometimes and thats why I have to enjoy the not-so-often-ope= nings-over-the-pole. One thing is for sure Ive seen your signal on more day= s this year than any previous years and the AK dusk opening was a new mode = Ive not seen before - ERP and relative stable conditions help but ALans sta= tement on a little activity helping is certainly a proven fact - just not t= ooooo much! Ive not seen any positive or added benefits on any modal paths I can detect= (on this path) with Proton events=2C save a splendid free light show - Whe= n stationed up in the far North (between 80 and 90N) I cant think of any cl= ear night when there wasnt either a pale electric Blue/Green arc or banded = blob visible at some time in the evening - some of which Im sure was Aurora= l in origin - even on the quietest of Geo/Sol days I was surprised to still being seeing HGA22 weakly on the 23rd but since t= hen its completely off my radar and no detectable and any meaningful speed.= The weather has been bad even for Alaska and by the looks of it my VLF arr= ay is laying sidewards under a large snow drift=2C though the K9AY and prob= e appear still to be in the air - Ive also lost my HF Tx antennae and that = will have to wait till I go home in March. Loads of Moose being killed as t= hey seek an easier walking route along 6 lane highways between Wasilla and = Anchorage :-(( Laurence remote > Date: Tue=2C 24 Jan 2012 13:00:46 +0100 > From: Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: Very special condx over the pole? >=20 > Hello Alan=2C >=20 > Thanks for your comments. Most probably you are right but you know i'm a= =20 > Dreamer and dreams can sometimes be unrealistic (not like transmissions=20 > below 9 kHz =3B-) ). > DCF39 is also transmitting all the time so probably Scott or those who=20 > watch his DCF plot would already know about "magic" propagation. >=20 > Have a nice day. >=20 > 73=2C Stefan >=20 > Am 24.01.2012 01:08=2C schrieb Alan Melia: > > Hi Stefan increases auroral activity leads to a big increase in noise a= t > > high latitudes=2C what may be more difficult is that there has been a p= roton > > event which have was active from about Thursday last week and was just = dying > > away yesterday. The M9 flare this morning produced a huge proton event = one > > of the biggest I have seen for ages. These proton events are assocated = with > > Polar Cap Absorbtion (PCA) and as Laurence knows (and bemoans) this wil= l > > wipe out LF polar routes for some time. > > > > The auoral curtain is always there (somewhere) and it is possible we be= lieve > > to bounce under it. So if the path is such that the ground reflection i= s > > under the curtain rather than in the ionosphere=2C signals may get thro= ugh. > > This means if you are inside the curtain then you need to be about 2000= km > > from the opposite side for the signal to get out. > > > > The so called "large" geomagnetic event isnt that large (!) it was a Kp= =3D5 > > minor storm rating and only just. Most of the activity was Kp=3D4. The = Dst was > > depressed to -55nT but the Ring Current was quite depleted anyway and t= he > > Dst has already risen to -28nT (above -20nT is "good" ) This is a diff= usion > > process so is exponential. I guess propagation tonight and tomorrow wil= l be > > depressed but I think we then have to wait to see the effect of a CME t= hat > > was associated with this morning's M9 flare this could be much bigger a= nd my > > be more Earthward pointing. At present the Amination suggests again we = will > > miss and direct hit and see a glancing blow from the shock front. This = may > > give a major storm (Kp =3D6 or 7) which would depress LF propagation fo= r a > > further week or 10 days. > > > > Not all activity is bad because very long very quiet periods lead to > > depressed signal levels too. I tend to think of this as an increased "l= eak" > > from an under-ionised E-layer but I could be very wrong in my > > hypothesis.....no one has taken me to task on it yet so I keep sticking= my > > neck out :-)) > > > > Alan G3NYK > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > > To: > > Sent: Monday=2C January 23=2C 2012 8:50 PM > > Subject: LF: Very special condx over the pole? > > > > > > =20 > >> Laurence=2C Alan=2C Scott=2C Jack=2C Steve=2C LF-experts... :-) > >> > >> Yesterday the K indes rised to above 5 so i think we hardly can expect > >> "usual" propagation over the pole to AK or VE7. > >> > >> My question is if there have ever been unusual propagation effects bee= n > >> observed=2C during very strong geomagnectic activity. Things like Auro= ra > >> on VHF or a duct for LF? > >> > >> The pole and what happens there in the auroral oval is an interesting > >> imagination. I think (not being a propagation expert) it is always wor= th > >> watching and transmitting. > >> > >> > >> 73=2C Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> =20 > > =20 >=20 = --_43ad7ec8-f206-4eee-9987-e5fc5203f102_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stefan/Alan - As Alan quite rightly states I bemoan the fact that Proton ev= ents occur (well at least at LF/MF) - It knocks the paths right off for day= s=2C nay weeks sometimes and thats why I have to enjoy the not-so-often-ope= nings-over-the-pole. One thing is for sure Ive seen your signal on more day= s this year than any previous years and the AK dusk opening was a new mode = Ive not seen before - ERP and relative stable conditions help but ALans sta= tement on a little activity helping is certainly a proven fact - just not t= ooooo much!

Ive not seen any positive or added benefits on any modal= paths I can detect (on this path) with Proton events=2C save a splendid fr= ee light show - When stationed up in the far North (between 80 and 90N) I c= ant think of any clear night when there wasnt either a pale electric Blue/G= reen arc or banded blob visible at some time in the evening - some of which= Im sure was Auroral in origin - even on the quietest of Geo/Sol days

 =3BI was surprised to still being seeing HGA22 weakly on the 23r= d but since then its completely off my radar and no detectable and any mean= ingful speed. The weather has been bad even for Alaska and by the looks of = it my VLF array is laying sidewards under a large snow drift=2C though the = K9AY and probe appear still to be in the air - Ive also lost my HF Tx anten= nae and that will have to wait till I go home in March. Loads of Moose bein= g killed as they seek an easier walking route along 6 lane highways between= Wasilla and Anchorage :-((

Laurence
remote

>=3B Date: Tue=2C 24 Jan 2012 13:00:46 +01= 00
>=3B From: Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>=3B To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
>=3B Subject: Re: LF: Re: Very special condx = over the pole?
>=3B
>=3B Hello Alan=2C
>=3B
>=3B Than= ks for your comments. Most probably you are right but you know i'm a
&g= t=3B Dreamer and dreams can sometimes be unrealistic (not like transmission= s
>=3B below 9 kHz =3B-) ).
>=3B DCF39 is also transmitting all = the time so probably Scott or those who
>=3B watch his DCF plot would= already know about "magic" propagation.
>=3B
>=3B Have a nice d= ay.
>=3B
>=3B 73=2C Stefan
>=3B
>=3B Am 24.01.2012 01= :08=2C schrieb Alan Melia:
>=3B >=3B Hi Stefan increases auroral act= ivity leads to a big increase in noise at
>=3B >=3B high latitudes= =2C what may be more difficult is that there has been a proton
>=3B &g= t=3B event which have was active from about Thursday last week and was just= dying
>=3B >=3B away yesterday. The M9 flare this morning produced = a huge proton event one
>=3B >=3B of the biggest I have seen for age= s. These proton events are assocated with
>=3B >=3B Polar Cap Absorb= tion (PCA) and as Laurence knows (and bemoans) this will
>=3B >=3B w= ipe out LF polar routes for some time.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Th= e auoral curtain is always there (somewhere) and it is possible we believe<= br>>=3B >=3B to bounce under it. So if the path is such that the ground= reflection is
>=3B >=3B under the curtain rather than in the ionosp= here=2C signals may get through.
>=3B >=3B This means if you are ins= ide the curtain then you need to be about 2000km
>=3B >=3B from the = opposite side for the signal to get out.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B = The so called "large" geomagnetic event isnt that large (!) it was a Kp=3D5=
>=3B >=3B minor storm rating and only just. Most of the activity wa= s Kp=3D4. The Dst was
>=3B >=3B depressed to -55nT but the Ring Curr= ent was quite depleted anyway and the
>=3B >=3B Dst has already rise= n to -28nT (above -20nT is "good" ) This is a diffusion
>=3B >=3B p= rocess so is exponential. I guess propagation tonight and tomorrow will be<= br>>=3B >=3B depressed but I think we then have to wait to see the effe= ct of a CME that
>=3B >=3B was associated with this morning's M9 fla= re this could be much bigger and my
>=3B >=3B be more Earthward poin= ting. At present the Amination suggests again we will
>=3B >=3B miss= and direct hit and see a glancing blow from the shock front. This may
&= gt=3B >=3B give a major storm (Kp =3D6 or 7) which would depress LF propa= gation for a
>=3B >=3B further week or 10 days.
>=3B >=3B
= >=3B >=3B Not all activity is bad because very long very quiet periods = lead to
>=3B >=3B depressed signal levels too. I tend to think of th= is as an increased "leak"
>=3B >=3B from an under-ionised E-layer bu= t I could be very wrong in my
>=3B >=3B hypothesis.....no one has ta= ken me to task on it yet so I keep sticking my
>=3B >=3B neck out :-= ))
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Alan G3NYK
>=3B >=3B ----- Orig= inal Message -----
>=3B >=3B From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer"<=3BStefan.Sc= haefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>=3B
>=3B >=3B To:<=3Brsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>=3B
>=3B >=3B Sent: Monday=2C January 23=2C 2012 8:= 50 PM
>=3B >=3B Subject: LF: Very special condx over the pole?
&g= t=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B>=3B La= urence=2C Alan=2C Scott=2C Jack=2C Steve=2C LF-experts... :-)
>=3B >= =3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B>=3B Yesterday the K indes rised to above 5 so = i think we hardly can expect
>=3B >=3B>=3B "usual" propagation ove= r the pole to AK or VE7.
>=3B >=3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B>=3B My q= uestion is if there have ever been unusual propagation effects been
>= =3B >=3B>=3B observed=2C during very strong geomagnectic activity. Thin= gs like Aurora
>=3B >=3B>=3B on VHF or a duct for LF?
>=3B &g= t=3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B>=3B The pole and what happens there in the au= roral oval is an interesting
>=3B >=3B>=3B imagination. I think (n= ot being a propagation expert) it is always worth
>=3B >=3B>=3B wa= tching and transmitting.
>=3B >=3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B>=3B
&= gt=3B >=3B>=3B 73=2C Stefan/DK7FC
>=3B >=3B>=3B
>=3B >= =3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B
= = --_43ad7ec8-f206-4eee-9987-e5fc5203f102_--