Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mk04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 96E5338000084; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 20:34:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RnKOa-0008Fv-Bl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:33:00 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RnKOZ-0008Fm-OO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:32:59 +0000 Received: from nm1.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.108.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RnKOY-0000VT-Ht for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:32:59 +0000 Received: from [212.82.108.229] by nm1.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2012 01:32:52 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.227] by tm2.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2012 01:32:52 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2012 01:32:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 602031.63884.bm@omp1004.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 39348 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2012 01:32:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=a3tw67W2d1A8F+CrEXCoNGqUL32WP5ffoe4sTrmT91CVTuCYJAJFwDrYpwuwt+pTtNz8XOzmY00Qbu11RHEIjIWVHEPufmycPr8iVQebExKKKQ/+qyZH5aq/yu7sbneYGwgO8wlO+77w8pX2Fun3tZ0/9tGgxw1esIHmf66K394= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1326850372; bh=awhswiagVBhMs8fwEhgIANzcZcxy30lUJvcME2RSguk=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=EmwEwTmQjf0OfjAPy/z+cDr6/5AQeDAVwggwUSAxTU6pkRXnGUP7Cv5pgOtjdRF9SyFc7n0plyomPbZjc3jkwk39aAoe5fxllJtWCodmXduAu3YuGDZT0kKJ4Y8MTGjqOSmxFpHqp7vo6TVVnu+FyCqwv3Kb8wBQHDACQGZ7rE0= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: bheewAkVM1nlU03GU_OQ.YI.aofCaTSFhiwEaEqOiJcMVyi 1tYLDE4rmJmdyIqGCSC7jbd5rjtU1D45eYNLaJ1lM6.IuvDM59mKz3lKZj7x l2DZ0XRzji8Lgh6PNjDKdm0Z7JncphHYyylkUtmyAkj9RhbjUkJBoFpUcD24 GWi5xe8evrZiXAiJBdOLwGIpbNxDJyLwC.GSLZeetH9xTJuorJ_ZgWVRmxJ0 s7ZyjfpNm3OxYJhid3WlR4fJtJhmItqyAiP0hASYZE66f3t4eY3FlzJZMTDt JQvbUNdNox0GpeZCgo2BD0Sh23t6Hp6NG8YLfdA5.UeShkdpEFIqiulABgYL R15iKPZI8Ri5eFhoH_wQOFFJGWl5csU_70DCWQCMroLZRQVJ5DLACaLNbAlQ 8gJODcUhBBiFI4GUS5w-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.177.191.81 with login) by smtp819.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2012 01:32:52 +0000 GMT Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <2BB40A231A1A4EF8B2DB14786249FA35@AGB> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:32:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Opera continuous changes Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:494688064:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d008.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d61884f16218b6708 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Graham, LF Group, > Looking at the spec-plots for long haul DX on 136 , the peak > signal levels do not appear to support the full call sign when > using the very long qrss periods , the ref is often pinged with > post asking as to who xx is or zyz etc I think partly this is due to the habit of only transmitting partial callsigns - I am not sure why this is preferred to complete callsigns for beacon transmissions. But it is also true for, e.g. QRSS60 on 136kHz, that there will very often be one or more fades during the time it takes to transmit a full callsign, leading to loss of some of the symbols. So, for an effective low-speed mode where the duration of the message is likely to be longer than the period between fades, the encoding scheme really has to include redundancy in order be able to cope with the loss of some of the data during fades. Over a much shorter period WSPR does this rather well; more than half the transmitted signal can be completely missing and the original message can still be fully recovered. WOLF also achieves this in a different way by integrating several repeated transmissions over a long period. You can do this "visually" with QRSS, etc, by looking at the received fragments of a repeated ID. From what you say, I guess Opera must already include this sort of redundancy in some way, although it is obviously hard to comment without knowing anything about the encoding scheme... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU