Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mp03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 85F8E38000085; Sat, 7 Jan 2012 09:35:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RjXL8-0003w6-6V for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:33:46 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RjXL7-0003vx-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:33:45 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RjXL5-0006r1-Mt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:33:45 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFAItWCE9Ok8qt/2dsb2JhbABDl28DlFCBBoFtBQEBBQgBAQNJAhgUAQEDBQIBAxEEAQEKJRQBBBoGFggGEwoBAgIBAYdrtXKMEQSCW4UrhS4BkkiHRQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.71,472,1320624000"; d="scan'208,217";a="523557882" Received: from host-78-147-202-173.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.202.173]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 07 Jan 2012 14:33:37 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01cccd49$570b8060$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <001801cccd27$b3b5da80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 14:33:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: JA/EU Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CCCD49.560ED0E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:495208512:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1dc1474f0858167afc X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CCCD49.560ED0E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Doug I see another has replied to your query which is more or less correct = but there are other variables depending on installation especially in = radio amateur circles.=20 Did you observe any acty on 136.173 earlier on today. I was on TX for a = short period before my sunrise 0630/0730 utc 73 es gl=20 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Douglas D. Williams=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 12:06 PM Subject: Re: LF: JA/EU Mal, I understand the relevance of what you are saying on HF, and even = medium wave, but could you (or anyone who cares to) give me a brief = explaination, or point me to a source of information, on LF propagation? = I was under the (admittedly simplistic) understanding that, the lower = one goes in frequency, the more the signal propagates via groundwave. I = do know that almost all military installations transmitting in the = VLF/LF bands use vertical antennas (very, very large ones with huge = capacity hats). Do signals at 136 kHz experience "skip" from ionispheric = reflection, similar to HF signals? Doug KB4OER On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:32 AM, mal hamilton = wrote: LF No sigs visible in JA from EU last nite at the peak time, around = 2150 z. The JA grabber moved freq so not possible to check at 0740z the = other peak time. I think the antenna used for transmitting has some influence on the = launch angle and distance covered and likewise the type of antenna at = the receive site. ie low or high angle.=20 A vertical TX antenna system as high as possible would produce low = angle signals, preferable for long haul DX, and low horizontal wires, = loops etc would produce high angle, ideal for short ranges but not ideal = for DX although the odd time high angle also does the trick. Large = vertical loops fed correctly at the side produce low angles but small = vertical loops relative to frequency ie LF might be difficult to = evaluate. de g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CCCD49.560ED0E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Doug
I see another has replied to your query which is = more or=20 less correct but there are other variables depending on installation = especially=20 in radio amateur circles.
Did you observe any acty on 136.173 earlier on = today. I=20 was on TX for a short period before my sunrise 0630/0730 = utc
73 es gl
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Douglas = D.=20 Williams
Sent: Saturday, January 07, = 2012 12:06=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: JA/EU

Mal, I understand the relevance of what you are saying on HF, and = even=20 medium wave, but could you (or anyone who cares to) give me a brief=20 explaination, or point me to a source of information, on LF = propagation? I was=20 under the (admittedly simplistic) understanding that, the lower one = goes in=20 frequency, the more the signal propagates via groundwave. I do know = that=20 almost all military installations transmitting in the VLF/LF bands use = vertical antennas (very, very large ones with huge capacity hats). Do = signals=20 at 136 kHz experience "skip" from ionispheric reflection, similar to = HF=20 signals?
 
Doug KB4OER

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:32 AM, mal hamilton = <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
LF
No sigs visible in JA from EU last nite at = the peak=20 time, around 2150 z. The JA grabber moved freq so not possible to = check at=20 0740z the other peak time.
I think the antenna used for transmitting = has some=20 influence on the launch angle and distance covered and likewise the = type of=20 antenna at the receive site. ie low or high angle.
A vertical TX antenna system as high as = possible would=20 produce low angle signals, preferable for long haul DX, and low = horizontal=20 wires, loops etc would produce high angle, ideal for short ranges = but not=20 ideal for DX although the odd time high angle also does the trick. = Large=20 vertical loops fed correctly at the side  produce low = angles but=20 small vertical loops relative to frequency ie LF might be difficult = to=20 evaluate.
de g3kev
 
 
 
 

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