Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 10EF238000083; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:49:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RXMjX-0007lK-1Q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 00:48:39 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RXMjW-0007lB-FE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 00:48:38 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f43.google.com ([209.85.210.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RXMjT-00067T-W5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 00:48:38 +0000 Received: by dadz13 with SMTP id z13so5965276dad.16 for ; Sun, 04 Dec 2011 16:48:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=zIntkBEnos1CZHebXopwqtRu6ECJKLWzCKbZxnnti3I=; b=xpWfjwIMvOVbB2dvlGJQtk5u0s6QFo429Uz7/Zv3uzi7HfMqLwvNaB6BEvewPlnOPB T4nAjPxImLWui/veZKmRRUtiX0O6tICO4vC14/Wi3iNRsfCCe2eChxt8pUhe5mr7fl0T GLyW5GTFWBycFu5lHMxHX5RT+VTFts1tNNKTM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.34.67 with SMTP id x3mr18639364pbi.100.1323046108527; Sun, 04 Dec 2011 16:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.49.230 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 16:48:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4EDC1126.5070704@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4EDC0AE0.7050207@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4EDC0DB5.2040703@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4EDC1126.5070704@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:48:28 -0500 Message-ID: From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: XGJ in TF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520f42b51fa5c04b34dad2b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:445713632:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d016.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4edc151140c8 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --bcaec520f42b51fa5c04b34dad2b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, Output power is the same as before, approx 1100 Watts with a modified Decca. The difference is likely less than 3dB, one coax was RG-11, the other is RF-214/u silver plated dual shield. The RG-11 was up longer and finally broke, the RG-214/u was added latter. The RG-214 has a noticeably lower resistance as one might expect. When running two loops in parallel my ERP was measured at 4W (actually within a range of 3.5-4.4W) I live in New England which is heavily wooded. I have experimented with verticals but the ground loss is high due rocky soil is very high. If you have very lossy ground it is unlikely that you will see a benefit with a Litz wire loading coil as the ground losses >> than the coil loss. I also started a small fire with the vertical due to the high voltages - and this was when running only 250W out. I have settled on loops as best for my location, but even then I had to put in considerable effort to make sure that the tuner could handle the high currents without over heating. --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer > ** > Warren, > > Ah, two in parallel, i thought in series. Tnx info. > So now you have 3 dB less radiated power due to twice the losses? Or did > you compensate that by 3 dB QRO ;-) > > Is the loop sourrounded by trees or why didi you decide to prefer a loop > as the TX antenna? Which cable did you use and have you ever tried RF lit= z > wire, e.g. the Decca type which i use now for my coil? > Sounds all interesting and a nice proof that it is a working alternative. > > Did you series compensate / resonate the loop and is it errected by a > large ferrite xfmr with one or two secondary turns? > > 73, Stefan > > Am 05.12.2011 01:23, schrieb Warren Ziegler: > > Hi Stefan, > > Thank you! > My loop used to be two parallel turns of coax, one of the coax cables > opened up recently so now it is a single turn loop approx 24m vertical by > 44 meters horizontal. > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Hi Warren, >> >> Even 4X, that's very remarkable! You are the one with the 2 turn TX loop= , >> right? >> >> Good luck and i hope i will see something too. >> >> 73, Stefan/DK7FC >> >> Am 05.12.2011 01:12, schrieb Warren Ziegler: >> >> Hi Stefan, >> Thank you! >> Roman RW3ADB reported XGJ last night on the TF3HZ, 4X1RF, and F1AFJ >> grabbers at the same time, >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> >> >> 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >>> LF, >>> >>> I can see very clear traces of XGJ tonite at TF3HZ, >>> http://simnet.is/halldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_LFgrabber/ >>> Is it the first time? At least i found no capture on the capture >>> archive... >>> >>> 73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 --bcaec520f42b51fa5c04b34dad2b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan,
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Output power is the same as before, a= pprox 1100 Watts with a modified Decca.
The difference is likely = less than 3dB, one coax was RG-11, the other is RF-214/u silver plated dual= shield. The RG-11 was up longer and finally broke, the RG-214/u was added = latter.
The RG-214 has a noticeably lower resistance as one might expect.
When running two loops in parallel my ERP was measured at 4W (actuall= y within a range of 3.5-4.4W)

I live in New Englan= d which is heavily wooded. I have experimented with verticals but the groun= d loss is high due rocky soil is very high.

If you have very lossy ground it is unlikely that you w= ill see a benefit with a Litz wire loading coil as the ground losses >&g= t; than the coil loss.

I also started a small fire= with the vertical due to the high voltages - and this was when running onl= y 250W out.
I have settled on loops as best for my location, but even then I had t= o put in considerable effort to make sure that the tuner could handle the h= igh currents without over heating.


--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Sch= aefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
=20
Warren,

Ah, two in parallel, i thought in series. Tnx info.
So now you have 3 dB less radiated power due to twice the losses? Or did you compensate that by 3 dB QRO ;-)

Is the loop sourrounded by trees or why didi you decide to prefer a loop as the TX antenna? Which cable did you use and have you ever tried RF litz wire, e.g. the Decca type which i use now for my coil?
Sounds all interesting and a nice proof that it is a working alternative.

Did you series compensate / resonate the loop and is it errected by a large ferrite xfmr with one or two secondary turns?

73, Stefan

Am 05.12.2011 01:23, schrieb Warren Ziegler:
Hi Stefan,

=A0 =A0Thank you!
My loop used to be two parallel turns of coax, one of the coax cables opened up recently so now it is a single turn loop approx 24m vertical by 44 meters horizontal.

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer &= lt;Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
Hi Warren,

Even 4X, that's very remarkable! You are the one with the 2 turn TX loop, right?

Good luck and i hope i will see something too.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 05.12.2011 01:12, schrieb Warren Ziegler:
Hi Stefan,
=A0 =A0Thank you!
Roman RW3ADB reported XGJ last night =A0on the TF3HZ, 4X1RF, and F1AFJ grabbers at the same time,

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
LF,

I can see very clear traces of XGJ tonite at TF3HZ, http://simnet.is/h= alldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_LFgrabber/
Is it the first time? At least i found no capture on the capture archive...

73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC







--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0



--
73 Warren K2= ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0
--bcaec520f42b51fa5c04b34dad2b--