Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:41:40 -0400
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: Bill de Carle <ve2iq@magma.ca>
In-Reply-To: <002c01cc8fdc$6720c640$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL>
References: <4EA0D4CD.3090003@gmail.com>
 <4EA1409A.1010108@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
 <002c01cc8fdc$6720c640$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <E1RHHE4-0007Om-AY@post.thorcom.com>
Subject: Re: LF: T/A DK7FC
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="=====================_3396013==.ALT"
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0  
x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d94ea1930a29c5
X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25
X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none


--=====================_3396013==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 06:30 AM 10/21/2011, Jay W1VD wrote:
>Stefan
>
>Capture of your signal fading into the sunrise at about 0640Z at 
><http://www.w1vd.com/grabber.html>http://www.w1vd.com/grabber.html .
>
>Signal was already very strong when I switched the receiver on about 
>2230Z but went into a very slow fade that lasted until about 0230Z. 
>Signal popped back up and was strong the rest of the night until 
>fadeout as shown above. It was interesting that VE2IQ had copy 
>throughout the fade noted here. There was no QRM or unusual static 
>conditions to limit receiving 'sensitivity' so propagation is likely 
>to blame. I'm curious what Bill is using for his receiving antenna 
>... maybe he will chime in. The antenna here is the large format K9AY.

Hi Jay, Stefan, group:

Stefan was received here reasonably well all night.  I uploaded one 
of the captures this morning: http://www.nrtco.net/~ve2iq/grabs/
I was using a couple of orthogonal loops for receiving: loops are 
rectangular and each has approx 100 feet of finely-stranded wire (not 
Litz), about 0.25 inch diameter with heavy insulation.  The 
rectangles are roughly 30' horiz by 20' high with bottoms about 
shoulder height above the ground.  I support them from maple trees 
with those black rubber tie-down straps truckers use.  The "NS" loop 
orientation is actually 27 degrees; the "EW" orientation is 117 
degrees.  The NS loop is slightly larger in area than the EW.  To 
receive from Heidelberg I connect the loops in series to favor 
NE/SW.  The system is tuned (Q only 35 otherwise too much freq change 
with temperature).  I have noticed that you and I often see similar 
QRN when trying to receive Stefan's signal.  One difference might be 
that I have essentially no response from the E-field, another might 
be that I am sensitive to signals arriving from two
directions and you can null out one direction.

I read with some interest about your success with the K9AY and gave 
it a try but it doesn't work well here because the loops are in some 
heavy bush, not in the clear.  While it is easy to obtain a good 
ground in the woods there is very little E-field available because 
the trees are much taller than the whole antenna.  I suppose at LF it 
might sorta work with an E-field probe closer to the house instead of 
using the E-field pickup of the loops themselves, but there are 
issues with that approach so I never bothered to try it.

73,
Bill VE2IQ

--=====================_3396013==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
At 06:30 AM 10/21/2011, Jay W1VD wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>Stefan<br>
</font>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>Capture of your signal fading into
the sunrise at about 0640Z at
<a href="http://www.w1vd.com/grabber.html">
http://www.w1vd.com/grabber.html</a> .<br>
</font>&nbsp;<br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>Signal was already very strong when
I switched the receiver on about 2230Z but went into a very slow fade
that lasted until about 0230Z. Signal popped back up and was strong the
rest of the night until fadeout as shown above. It was interesting that
VE2IQ had copy throughout the fade noted here. There was no QRM or
unusual static conditions to limit receiving 'sensitivity' so propagation
is likely to blame. I'm curious what Bill is using for his receiving
antenna ... maybe he will chime in. The antenna here is the large format
K9AY.</font></blockquote><br>
Hi Jay, Stefan, group:<br><br>
Stefan was received here reasonably well all night.&nbsp; I uploaded one
of the captures this morning:
<a href="http://www.nrtco.net/~ve2iq/grabs/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.nrtco.net/~ve2iq/grabs/<br>
</a>I was using a couple of orthogonal loops for receiving: loops are
rectangular and each has approx 100 feet of finely-stranded wire (not
Litz), about 0.25 inch diameter with heavy insulation.&nbsp; The
rectangles are roughly 30' horiz by 20' high with bottoms about shoulder
height above the ground.&nbsp; I support them from maple trees with those
black rubber tie-down straps truckers use.&nbsp; The &quot;NS&quot; loop
orientation is actually 27 degrees; the &quot;EW&quot; orientation is 117
degrees.&nbsp; The NS loop is slightly larger in area than the EW.&nbsp;
To receive from Heidelberg I connect the loops in series to favor
NE/SW.&nbsp; The system is tuned (Q only 35 otherwise too much freq
change with temperature).&nbsp; I have noticed that you and I often see
similar QRN when trying to receive Stefan's signal.&nbsp; One difference
might be that I have essentially no response from the E-field, another
might be that I am sensitive to signals arriving from two<br>
directions and you can null out one direction.<br><br>
I read with some interest about your success with the K9AY and gave it a
try but it doesn't work well here because the loops are in some heavy
bush, not in the clear.&nbsp; While it is easy to obtain a good ground in
the woods there is very little E-field available because the trees are
much taller than the whole antenna.&nbsp; I suppose at LF it might sorta
work with an E-field probe closer to the house instead of using the
E-field pickup of the loops themselves, but there are issues with that
approach so I never bothered to try it.<br><br>
73,<br>
Bill VE2IQ<br>
</body>
</html>

--=====================_3396013==.ALT--