Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E2A2638000232; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RFmRU-0006je-MP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:37:20 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RFmRU-0006jV-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:37:20 +0100 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RFmRR-0001mm-Uo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:37:20 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.9]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p9HCb29D015145 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:02 -0400 Received: from core-msc001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-msc001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.233.193]) by mtaomg-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 8AC3AE00008D for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT) References: <003f01cc8cbb$cda7c900$4001a8c0@lark> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <003f01cc8cbb$cda7c900$4001a8c0@lark> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34188-STANDARD Received: from 194.138.39.54 by webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.38) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:00 -0400 Message-Id: <8CE5AE099A73E46-10E8-5524B@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [194.138.39.54] Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT) X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:405432000:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_AOL_TAGS=0.281,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ducted TA propagation? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CE5AE099B32562_10E8_CD625_webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:442866368:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40854e9c21c16a0e X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CE5AE099B32562_10E8_CD625_webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks Alan for this comment!=20 Yes I wasn't all that serious when referring to it as a duct, I was just am= azed by the degree of spatial selective fading at that instant. As Dex and = Bill have mentioned, it evened out later during the night, so it was probab= ly really just a random quirk from the gods of propagation. Thanks very much for the reports, and the very useful grabber operations! Best regards, MArkus -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Alan Melia An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mo, 17 Okt 2011 12:59 pm Betreff: LF: Re: Ducted TA propagation? Hi Markus I think you are referring to the type of effect that often happen= s n 160m. I dont know the answer but I suggest that it might be difficult to et 136kHz into a duct and get it out again. Localised variations in signal articularly with the high sensitivity of grabbers is more easily explained s due to multipath differences between the sites. You can often see the econd site comming in as the first fades out. This may be more prevalent ith you as you may require an extra "hop" to US in the UK on the TA path. his makes the signal more dependent on any excess attenuation due to eomagnetic effects as well. I will seek some advice as to whether it is a feasible mechanism. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 rom: "Markus Vester" o: ent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:00 AM ubject: LF: Ducted TA propagation? ow just before midnight UT, Ossi's "555" on 136173.1 is clearly visible on E2IQ's grabber, and my "NM" on 136172.5 seems to make it through to W4DEX. owever not a trace vice versa... Best 73, arkus (DF6NM) ----------MB_8CE5AE099B32562_10E8_CD625_webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Thanks Alan for this comment!
 
Yes I wasn't all that serious when referring to it as a duct, I was ju= st amazed by the degree of spatial selective fading at that instant. As Dex= and Bill have mentioned, it evened out later during the night, so it was p= robably really just a random quirk from the gods of propagation.

Thanks very much for the reports, and the very useful grabber operations!
 
Best regards,
MArkus

 
= -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Mo, 17 Okt 2011 12:59 pm
Betreff: LF: Re: Ducted TA propagation?

Hi Mar=
kus I think you are referring to the type of effect that often happens
on 160m. I dont know the answer but I suggest that it might be difficult to
get 136kHz into a duct and get it out again. Localised variations in signal
particularly with the high sensitivity of grabbers is more easily explained
as due to multipath differences=
 between the sites. You can often see the
second site comming in as the f=
irst fades out. This may be more prevalent
with you as you may require an extra "hop" to US in t=
he UK on the TA path.
This makes the signal more dependent on any excess attenuation due to
geomagnetic effects as well.

I will seek some advice as to whether it is a feasible mechanism.

Alan G3NYK

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Markus Vester" <markusves=
ter@aol.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@black=
sheep.org>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:00 AM
Subject: LF: Ducted TA propagation?


Now just before midnight UT, Ossi's "555" on 136173.1 is clearly visible on
VE2IQ's grabber, and my "NM" on 136172.5 seems to mak=
e it through to W4DEX.
However not a trace vice versa...

Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
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