Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 855D7380000E5; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 12:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1R0Fu3-0004Qe-KY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:50:39 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1R0Fu2-0004QV-R5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:50:38 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s27.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1R0Fu0-0002rZ-R6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:50:38 +0100 Received: from BLU153-W54 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s27.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 4 Sep 2011 09:50:29 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [72.35.124.98] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 08:50:28 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6C3CB471FC6B45389AB252BB9F9CAB98@AGB> References: <004301cc68dc$3ee79540$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><4EEE84D5F0DF43BE878C6B3E1E455554@AGB><005301cc68de$4c864c80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><3C0C61D0515A436CB88A0DB5AFDD9CA9@AGB><001101cc68e5$974df590$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><20110902053904.477d773c@svr1> , ,<6C3CB471FC6B45389AB252BB9F9CAB98@AGB> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2011 16:50:29.0667 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0EC3F30:01CC6B22] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_73e03e99-a7b3-4d13-bf3b-84334cccd913_" Subject: RE: LF: ros X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:485402880:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40564e63aca25909 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_73e03e99-a7b3-4d13-bf3b-84334cccd913_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks - well the path to Eu today over the pole of LF was closed last nite= from here. ie just too much iono losses and the window of mutual darkness = is still very short. But the saving grace is the K9AY's very low noise leve= l if anything pops over the Pole.=20 =20 Ill leave ROS 136kHz on tonight with the anteannae beaming NNE ish=2C and= leave the snapper on the 136.172 window (if I remember!) =20 Winters coming - snow on the mountain tops and the leaves looking tired. 38= F here this morning....loving it!! =20 Laurence KL7UK BP51ip =20 From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat=2C 3 Sep 2011 23:39:54 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: ros FB Laurence=2C so far so good then ! =2C looks like your 14 meg mon= itor is doing well ! =20 Gus was wondering about 136 Khz ? could be a possibility ? =20 73 -G..=20 =20 =20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 Sent: Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 8:57 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: ros Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...! And appreciate the signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight. Laurence KL7UK/AM Minneapolis enroute Anchorage From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri=2C 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: ros That's an unfortunate start to the winter ! =20 The MF mode has had very little usage compared to the HF =2C so its = quite possible some bug's lurk within=20 as with the HF side=2C operation is unique =2C however all be it fun= ctional =2C its worth noting =2C the whole mode/project is the=20 some work of one person ..=20 =20 It is firstly a qso mode =2C so as noticed the beacon side tends = to favour users of the channel =2C=20 =20 As noted by Gary =2C there was a beacon-timer freeze problem with the = previous issue =20 Programme freeze =2C was that PC lock =2C or just ROS ? not experience= d any freeze problems for some time now =20 =20 Psk-Reporter can offer some history data from the stats page=2C unique= band spots for 136/500 can be obtained by setting the Band =3D unknown. but to date there = is no searchable data base=20 for the ros system.. ( A stored history of the received text would be= useful....but not avilable) =20 Static problem's =2C a bit subjective may be ? but if the same occurs= in the near future =2C an audio recording would be useful for evaluat= ion =2C =20 The s/n indication is a average value of the received frame =2C with= the 'Margin' being the amount of signal over the 'limit of resoluti= on' so at the lower levels its quite possible a % of the data was unde= r the threshold =2C low level decodes are rarely 100% crc =2C but it = is a=20 live 'rtty' mode=2C structured for data rate V s/n =2C at levels of = -30 > -33dB average it is predictable there will be a level of corrupt= ion ? =20 If anyone has any requests / observations =2C > nietoros@hotmail.com=3B= =20 =20 Tnx all - G..=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 10:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ros John & All=2C=20 Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent beacon= mode stopping when other signals encountered. 73=2C Gary - G4WGT. On 2 September 2011 06:39=2C John GM4SLV wr= ote: On Thu=2C 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800 Laurence KL7UK wrote: > > KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night - > > Laurence=2C LF=2C ROS is NOT the mode for this sort of test! I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the regular beaconing had stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received the software stops any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this instance it didn't restart the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows that at 23:34 UTC there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame=2C and after that no further beacons were sent. Sorry. WSPR would seem to be the mode for finding an opening=2C not ROS=2C I won't be using it again in anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very ponderous=2C which I can accept for the ability to resolve signals deep in the noise=2C inaudible even=2C but it didn't seem to perform very well i= n the presence of lightning QRN - requiring signals to be audible before it decoded them. On top of that I find the actual software to be very difficult to drive. As Mal pointed out=2C the continuous appearance if spots & information of activity on every other band is very annoying=2C and seemingly can't be turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously flawed for the use we put it to. The secret nature of the modem means no one else can integrate ROS into existing (more user friendly) software (fldigi=2C multipsk etc). The PSKreporter spot-collecting website=2C while a laudable project=2C is no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database=2C which makes finding and tabulating reception reports more difficult. I'll stick with WSPR for beaconing=2C which is what it was intended for=2C and look into other MFSK modes for QSOs. Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests over the weekend? Cheers=2C John GM4SLV = --_73e03e99-a7b3-4d13-bf3b-84334cccd913_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks - well the =3Bpath to =3BEu today =3Bover the pole of LF= was closed last nite from here. ie =3Bjust too much iono losses and th= e window =3Bof mutual =3Bdarkness is still very short. But =3Bt= he saving grace is the K9AY's very =3Blow noise level if anything pops = over the Pole. =3B
 =3B
 =3BIll leave ROS 136kHz on =3Btonight with the anteannae beaming&n= bsp=3BNNE =3B =3Bish=2C and leave the snapper on the 136.172 window= (if I remember!)
 =3B
Winters coming - snow on the mountain tops and the leaves looking tired. 38= F here this morning....loving it!!
 =3B
Laurence KL7UK BP51ip
 =3B
From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: = Sat=2C 3 Sep 2011 23:39:54 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: ros

FB =3B Laurence=2C =3B so =3B far so&nb= sp=3B good then ! =2C looks =3B like your =3B 14 =3B meg = =3B monitor =3B is =3B doing =3B well =3B!
 =3B
Gus =3B was =3B wondering about =3B&nbs= p=3B 136 Khz =3B ? =3B could =3B be =3B a =3B possibili= ty ?
 =3B
73 -G..
 =3B
 =3B

Sent: Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: LF: ros

Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...!
And appreciate th= e signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight.


Laurence KL7UK/AM = Minneapolis enroute Anchorage


From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org
Date: Fri=2C 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100
Subject: Re: LF= : ros

That's an unfortunate =3B start to the=  =3B winter =3B !
 =3B
The =3B MF mode =3B has =3B ha= d very =3B little =3B usage compared =3B to the =3B HF =2C = so its =3B quite possible =3B some =3B bug's =3B lurk  = =3B within
as =3B with =3B the =3B HF sid= e=2C operation =3B is unique =2C however =3Ball =3B be =3B = it  =3Bfunctional =3B=2C its =3B worth =3B noting =3B = =2C the =3B whole =3B mode/project =3B is the
some =3B work =3B of one person ..=
 =3B
It =3B is =3B firstly a =3B qs= o =3B mode =2C so =3B as =3B noticed =3B the =3B beacon=  =3B side =3B tends =3B to =3B favour =3B users of the = channel =2C
=  =3B
As noted =3B by Gary =2C there =3B= was a beacon-timer =3B freeze problem =3B with the =3B previou= s =3B issue
 =3B
Programme freeze =2C was that =3B = =3B PC lock =3B =2C or =3B just ROS ? not =3B experienced any f= reeze =3B =3B problems =3B =3B for =3B some time = =3B now =3B  =3B =3B
 =3B
Psk-Reporter can =3B offer =3B som= e =3B history data =3B from the =3B stats page=2C unique = =3B band =3B spots =3B for =3B 136/500
can be =3B obtained by =3B setting=  =3B the =3B Band =3D unknown. but =3B to =3B date =3B = there =3B is no searchable data =3B base
for the =3B ros =3B system.. ( A&n= bsp=3B stored history =3B of the =3B received =3B text would be=  =3B useful....but =3B not avilable)
 =3B
Static problem's =3B =2C a bit =3B= subjective may be ? but =3B if =3B the =3B same =3B occurs= in the =3B near =3B future =2C an audio recording =3B would&nb= sp=3B be useful =3Bfor =3B evaluation =2C
 =3B
The =3B s/n =3B indication =3B= is a average =3B value =3B of the =3B received =3B frame = =2C with the =3B 'Margin' =3B being the amount =3B of =3B s= ignal =3B over the =3B 'limit of =3B resolution'
so =3B at the =3B lower levels&nbs= p=3B its =3B quite =3B possible a =3B % of =3B the =3B = data =3B was under the =3B threshold =2C low =3B level =3B = decodes are rarely =3B 100% crc =3B =2C but =3B it =3B is a=
live =3B'rtty' =3B mode=2C structu= red =3B for =3B data =3B rate V s/n =2C at =3B levels = =3B of =3B -30 >=3B -33dB average  =3Bit is =3B predictable t= here =3B will =3B be a level of =3B corruption ?
 =3B
If =3B anyone has any requests / obser= vations =3B =2C >=3B =3B = nietoros@hotmail.com=3B
 =3B
Tnx =3B all =3B - G..
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B

Sent: Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: LF: ros

John &=3B All=2C=20

Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent b= eacon mode stopping when other signals encountered.

73=2C Gary - G4WGT.


On 2 September 2011 06:39=2C John GM4SLV <=3Bgm4s= lv@sighthound.demon.co.uk>=3B wrote:
On Thu=2C 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800
Laurence KL7UK &l= t=3Bhellozerohello= zero@hotmail.com>=3B wrote:

>=3B
>=3B KL7UK now ROS 500= kHz for the night -
>=3B
>=3B

Laurence=2C LF=2C
<= BR>ROS is NOT the mode for this sort of test!

I came to the shack at= 05:15 UTC to find the regular beaconing had
stopped running. Apparently= if a signal is received the software stops
any beacon (to avoid causing= QRM) and in this instance it didn't restart
the beacon timer afterwards= - therefore my log shows that at 23:34 UTC
there was a (not correctly d= ecoded) RX frame=2C and after that no further
beacons were sent.

= Sorry.

WSPR would seem to be the mode for finding an opening=2C not = ROS=2C

I won't be using it again in anger. I find as a QSO mode it i= s very
ponderous=2C which I can accept for the ability to resolve signal= s deep
in the noise=2C inaudible even=2C but it didn't seem to perform v= ery well in
the presence of lightning QRN - requiring signals to be audi= ble before
it decoded them.

On top of that I find the actual soft= ware to be very difficult to
drive. As Mal pointed out=2C the continuous= appearance if spots &=3B
information of activity on every other band= is very annoying=2C and
seemingly can't be turned off. The Beacon funct= ionality is seriously
flawed for the use we put it to. The secret nature= of the modem means
no one else can integrate ROS into existing (more us= er friendly)
software (fldigi=2C multipsk etc).

The PSKreporter s= pot-collecting website=2C while a laudable project=2C is
no way as usabl= e as the WSPRNet online database=2C which makes finding
and tabulating r= eception reports more difficult.

I'll stick with WSPR for beaconing= =2C which is what it was intended for=2C
and look into other MFSK modes = for QSOs.

Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests over the weekend?

 =3BCheers=2C

John
GM4SLV






= --_73e03e99-a7b3-4d13-bf3b-84334cccd913_--