Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A858838000138; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 15:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QzZrj-0007vp-4T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:57:27 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QzZri-0007vg-Gm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:57:26 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s35.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.46]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QzZrg-0007uL-KU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:57:26 +0100 Received: from BLU153-W1 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s35.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 2 Sep 2011 12:57:18 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [138.32.32.166] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 11:57:17 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <004301cc68dc$3ee79540$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><4EEE84D5F0DF43BE878C6B3E1E455554@AGB><005301cc68de$4c864c80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><3C0C61D0515A436CB88A0DB5AFDD9CA9@AGB><001101cc68e5$974df590$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><20110902053904.477d773c@svr1> , MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2011 19:57:18.0089 (UTC) FILETIME=[84D63790:01CC69AA] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_d28abaf3-56e4-49a7-8c0d-4da26bf3f097_" Subject: RE: LF: ros X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:448992800:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4e6135616ead X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_d28abaf3-56e4-49a7-8c0d-4da26bf3f097_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...! And appreciate the signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight. Laurence KL7UK/AM Minneapolis enroute Anchorage From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri=2C 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: ros That's an unfortunate start to the =20 winter ! =20 The MF mode has had very =20 little usage compared to the HF =2C so its quite=20 possible some bug's lurk within=20 as with the HF side=2C=20 operation is unique =2C however all be it=20 functional =2C its worth noting =2C the =20 whole mode/project is the=20 some work of one person ..=20 =20 It is firstly a qso mode =2C=20 so as noticed the beacon side tends =20 to favour users of the channel =2C=20 =20 As noted by Gary =2C there was a=20 beacon-timer freeze problem with the previous =20 issue =20 Programme freeze =2C was that PC=20 lock =2C or just ROS ? not experienced any freeze =20 problems for some time now =20 =20 =20 Psk-Reporter can offer some =20 history data from the stats page=2C unique band =20 spots for 136/500 can be obtained by setting =20 the Band =3D unknown. but to date there is no=20 searchable data base=20 for the ros system.. ( A stored=20 history of the received text would be =20 useful....but not avilable) =20 Static problem's =2C a bit subjective may=20 be ? but if the same occurs in the near =20 future =2C an audio recording would be useful for =20 evaluation =2C =20 The s/n indication is a=20 average value of the received frame =2C with the =20 'Margin' being the amount of signal over the =20 'limit of resolution' so at the lower levels its =20 quite possible a % of the data was under the =20 threshold =2C low level decodes are rarely 100% crc =2C=20 but it is a=20 live 'rtty' mode=2C structured =20 for data rate V s/n =2C at levels of -30 > -33dB=20 average it is predictable there will be a level of =20 corruption ? =20 If anyone has any requests /=20 observations =2C > nietoros@hotmail.com=3B=20 =20 Tnx all - G..=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 10:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ros John & All=2C=20 Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent beacon= =20 mode stopping when other signals encountered. 73=2C Gary - G4WGT. On 2 September 2011 06:39=2C John GM4SLV =20 wrote: On Thu=2C 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800 Laurence KL7UK =20 wrote: > > KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night=20 - > > Laurence=2C LF=2C ROS is NOT the mode for=20 this sort of test! I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the regular=20 beaconing had stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received the=20 software stops any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this instance it=20 didn't restart the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows that at=20 23:34 UTC there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame=2C and after that no=20 further beacons were sent. Sorry. WSPR would seem to be the=20 mode for finding an opening=2C not ROS=2C I won't be using it again in=20 anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very ponderous=2C which I can accept for=20 the ability to resolve signals deep in the noise=2C inaudible even=2C but it=20 didn't seem to perform very well in the presence of lightning QRN -=20 requiring signals to be audible before it decoded them. On top of=20 that I find the actual software to be very difficult to drive. As Mal=20 pointed out=2C the continuous appearance if spots & information of=20 activity on every other band is very annoying=2C and seemingly can't be=20 turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously flawed for the use we put=20 it to. The secret nature of the modem means no one else can integrate ROS=20 into existing (more user friendly) software (fldigi=2C multipsk=20 etc). The PSKreporter spot-collecting website=2C while a laudable=20 project=2C is no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database=2C which makes=20 finding and tabulating reception reports more difficult. I'll stick=20 with WSPR for beaconing=2C which is what it was intended for=2C and look into=20 other MFSK modes for QSOs. Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests over=20 the=20 weekend? Cheers=2C John GM4SLV = --_d28abaf3-56e4-49a7-8c0d-4da26bf3f097_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Graham - an interesting m= ode...!
And appreciate the signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight.

Laurence KL7UK/AM Minneapolis enroute Anchorage


Fr= om:=3B g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To:=3B rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Date:=3B Fri=2C 2 Sep 2011 14:=3B08:=3B26 +0100
Subject:= =3B Re:=3B LF:=3B ros

That's an unfortunate =3B start to the=  =3B=20 winter =3B !
 =3B
The =3B MF mode =3B has =3B ha= d very =3B=20 little =3B usage compared =3B to the =3B HF =2C so its =3B = quite=20 possible =3B some =3B bug's =3B lurk  =3B within
as =3B with =3B the =3B HF sid= e=2C=20 operation =3B is unique =2C however =3Ball =3B be =3B it=20  =3Bfunctional =3B=2C its =3B worth =3B noting =3B =2C = the =3B=20 whole =3B mode/project =3B is the
some =3B work =3B of one person ..= =20
 =3B
It =3B is =3B firstly a =3B qs= o =3B mode =2C=20 so =3B as =3B noticed =3B the =3B beacon =3B side = =3B tends =3B=20 to =3B favour =3B users of the channel =2C
=  =3B
As noted =3B by Gary =2C there =3B= was a=20 beacon-timer =3B freeze problem =3B with the =3B previous = =3B=20 issue
 =3B
Programme freeze =2C was that =3B = =3B PC=20 lock =3B =2C or =3B just ROS ? not =3B experienced any freeze&n= bsp=3B =3B=20 problems =3B =3B for =3B some time =3B now =3B=20  =3B =3B
 =3B
Psk-Reporter can =3B offer =3B som= e =3B=20 history data =3B from the =3B stats page=2C unique =3B band&nbs= p=3B=20 spots =3B for =3B 136/500
can be =3B obtained by =3B setting=  =3B=20 the =3B Band =3D unknown. but =3B to =3B date =3B there&nbs= p=3B is no=20 searchable data =3B base
for the =3B ros =3B system.. ( A&n= bsp=3B stored=20 history =3B of the =3B received =3B text would be =3B=20 useful....but =3B not avilable)
 =3B
Static problem's =3B =2C a bit =3B= subjective may=20 be ? but =3B if =3B the =3B same =3B occurs in the =3B = near =3B=20 future =2C an audio recording =3B would =3B be useful =3Bfor&nb= sp=3B=20 evaluation =2C
 =3B
The =3B s/n =3B indication =3B= is a=20 average =3B value =3B of the =3B received =3B frame =2C wit= h the =3B=20 'Margin' =3B being the amount =3B of =3B signal =3B over th= e =3B=20 'limit of =3B resolution'
so =3B at the =3B lower levels&nbs= p=3B its =3B=20 quite =3B possible a =3B % of =3B the =3B data =3B was = under the =3B=20 threshold =2C low =3B level =3B decodes are rarely =3B 100% crc=  =3B =2C=20 but =3B it =3B is a
live =3B'rtty' =3B mode=2C structu= red =3B=20 for =3B data =3B rate V s/n =2C at =3B levels =3B of = =3B -30 >=3B -33dB=20 average  =3Bit is =3B predictable there =3B will =3B be a l= evel of =3B=20 corruption ?
 =3B
If =3B anyone has any requests /=20 observations =3B =2C >=3B =3B nietoros@hotmail.com=3B
 =3B
Tnx =3B all =3B - G..
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B
 =3B

From:=3B Gary - G4WGT
Sent:=3B Friday=2C September 02=2C 2011 10:=3B22 AM
Subject:=3B Re:=3B LF:=3B ros

John &=3B All=2C=20

Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent b= eacon=20 mode stopping when other signals encountered.

73=2C Gary - G4WGT.


On 2 September 2011 06:=3B39=2C John GM4SL= V <=3Bgm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.uk>=3B=20 wrote:=3B
On Thu=2C 1 Sep 2011 15:=3B45:=3B19 -0800
Lau= rence KL7UK <=3Bhellozerohellozero@hotmail.com>=3B=20 wrote:=3B

>=3B
>=3B KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night=20 -
>=3B
>=3B

Laurence=2C LF=2C

ROS is NOT th= e mode for=20 this sort of test!

I came to the shack at 05:=3B15 UTC to find = the regular=20 beaconing had
stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received the= =20 software stops
any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this instance = it=20 didn't restart
the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows th= at at=20 23:=3B34 UTC
there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame=2C and af= ter that no=20 further
beacons were sent.

Sorry.

WSPR would seem to be = the=20 mode for finding an opening=2C not ROS=2C

I won't be using it agai= n in=20 anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very
ponderous=2C which I can accept= for=20 the ability to resolve signals deep
in the noise=2C inaudible even=2C = but it=20 didn't seem to perform very well in
the presence of lightning QRN -=20 requiring signals to be audible before
it decoded them.

On top = of=20 that I find the actual software to be very difficult to
drive. As Mal= =20 pointed out=2C the continuous appearance if spots &=3B
information = of=20 activity on every other band is very annoying=2C and
seemingly can't b= e=20 turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously
flawed for the use w= e put=20 it to. The secret nature of the modem means
no one else can integrate = ROS=20 into existing (more user friendly)
software (fldigi=2C multipsk=20 etc).

The PSKreporter spot-collecting website=2C while a laudable= =20 project=2C is
no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database=2C which= makes=20 finding
and tabulating reception reports more difficult.

I'll s= tick=20 with WSPR for beaconing=2C which is what it was intended for=2C
and lo= ok into=20 other MFSK modes for QSOs.

Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests = over=20 the=20 weekend?


 =3BCheers=2C

John
GM4SLV




= --_d28abaf3-56e4-49a7-8c0d-4da26bf3f097_--