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29 Sep 2011 08:35:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 748175.68167.bm@omp1002.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 74925 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2011 08:35:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=Sd0GJA3y3dKoSIdknGDS2qGhNX+mMroJ5mhCgy2zjHfNAxntR1Qq5hDbepd1FvrnpFLDIYEAWejCy3Y6S0bXJi5cz0yPjax5KPJp9tLYi+zhiG0Tm+e2sOPfdONQqfrhuqZABkWNpDfHxf68Ltbe25oB0Bjk/o6hnWKLUHsOKQI= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1317285320; bh=vNX1sC5LNtHxujYCotjhWA1O+KuXUaBoFrdU3bTyKzE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=HiwGtt7o9ixQRPPk3ZWUEx55DosrXxPxlZCLepurr70jg9Bx/ebuE25vQuRvbSZzTXkhq47NkHZxW4lKPhI/Fd9GRjfoTmZLXhA2FpqWFVYukJlCsk8EWM3tJTB3xxc58uWhwjPhvOIdHsN3rgDe0CPCycIcRsJ0rWw6waNhhy4= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: XED2r4gVM1kLqda7rEtiJn3952UE1eQvIv7qehRA04Xq9Rl W_syWuuBsiZ85P2yDvqOtcYY_4jv3HRkfWlmiTpb9VmUZqL_yeJz1LEgBply kVl7Ccy9d9l4ezw1EsZRFDqmbs5AvF7nnCkmeopkZJ_RZVMbV6aF6IgzTvmt CbZU7RuNoK7EBX2IuBLfMYTbmmbGGjUKZnzSjmx7kcDd1XsrA8ajv46n54cW ZUKL0PJOQ6oIQq01cSLkRKFpNaO88QBzM.lEHHBEqpXJ0bJ76JoDu3N0rmHW paDweRe3kV9KmY9CCOsMlaTflBDJuSj6R1vQMC0JFLukOkBl5mPMNklUNM36 VhUHLQ01R01.Lk14m_oWGcmxt8T8M6uJShWXceev2DDECqroPRK7FZKCqF3d 2eqyKb3Qz37gF5Y4rbw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.174.30.129 with login) by smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2011 01:35:20 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <97A4CD4629F94A90A7F5AFD6E2A17E73@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D4379ED2AAB4@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> <4DF9EFD1.5010208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1313780109.51443.YahooMailNeo@web111907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9CD1E11E8BC9402CB4AECECAC4088443@JimPC> <1314394178.5030.YahooMailNeo@web111905.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1314641183.5605.YahooMailNeo@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5CBC9A.5020900@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1314705226.37125.YahooMailNeo@web111901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5CF192.3040905@legal-medicine.de> <1317076720.22768.YahooMailNeo@web29509.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1317077173.13177.YahooMailNeo@web29509.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1317119515.35504.YahooMailNeo@web29502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1317119515.35504.YahooMailNeo@web29502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 09:35:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:445743936:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m261.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40c94e842e2a4049 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Daniele, LF Group, I would agree with others that the presence of the screen is reducing the Q in your ferrite rod. One must also be cautious about the possible effects of interconnecting wires, dielectric losses in wire insulation, the effect of the table and other nearby objects, etc. Also, loading by the scope probe is occasionally suprisingly high, where the resonant impedance of the rod antenna is high. For small antennas like this, it is important to maximise the unloaded Q, since achieving adequate signal-to-noise ratio is the primary function of a receiving antenna and the SNR of the antenna itself is directly related to Qu. Screening an H-field antenna against electric field pick-up might be important (especially where the antenna is used for direction finding). But it will inevitably reduce Q to some extent due to eddy current losses and the effect of additional distributed capacitance. Therefore there is a trade-off between reducing unwanted E-field pick-up, etc, and degrading the sensitivity. Similarly, spacing the winding from the ferrite rod and/or the aluminium screen may reduce some sources of loss, but will lead to increased winding resistance due to the greater length of wire needed for each turn, so it could be an advantage or a disadvantage. So it is important to know if the screening and winding arrangements cause a large reduction in Q - I would suggest doing a simple baseline test by winding some wire directly onto one of your ferrite rods, without any screening or additional insulation, and see how the Q results compare. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU