Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE16D38000096; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1R0Lxr-0003bT-3X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:18:59 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1R0Lxq-0003bB-C9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:18:58 +0100 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.210.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1R0Lxo-0001x7-Ae for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 00:18:58 +0100 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (cyrus-portal.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p84NItVW013205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2011 01:18:55 +0200 Received: from extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.140]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p84NIt7W017245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2011 01:18:55 +0200 Received: from [129.206.205.144] (vpn205-144.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.205.144]) by extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p84NIrWO024736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2011 01:18:54 +0200 Message-ID: <4E64075E.5010508@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 01:18:54 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <77DE9B8329834C6882925783A5F39A72@White> <001b01cc6af5$a8f74190$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040205040104050905090501" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:437426112:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84e6407c210ec X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040205040104050905090501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Markus, Jay, Very interesting! Congratulations to this result. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 04.09.2011 15:56, schrieb Markus Vester: > Excellent Jay, thanks very much! I am really happy about this result. > Attached is a spectrum graph, showing your peak at 3:16 UT, with > about 12 to 14 dB SNR in the 0.438 mHz FFT. > Do I understand you correctly in that you transmitted a continuous > carrier, without a frequency step? Then the apparent 3.8 mHz shift > must have been a transient propagational Doppler effect. > Remarkably, this lines up with observations of John Andrew's tests in > 2006, which had also shown two long stable runs, with a dip and rapid > phase change inbetween. The dip seems to roughly coincide with > midnight crossing over the middle of the path, but I'm not aware of > any simple physical explanation for this. > BTW Your transmit situation must be similar to mine: I have about 200 > W available into a Marconi antenna, which is about 0.1 percent > efficient now, and up to twice that in a cold winter night. > Best regards, and thanks again for the test > Markus (DF6NM) > > *From:* jrusgrove@comcast.net > *Sent:* Sunday, September 04, 2011 1:27 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3 > > Markus > The mystery signal was from WD2XNS ... you have the time and frequency > perfectly correct and the color DF also provides corroborating > evidence. Note that there was no break in the transmission. The > frequency is controlled by a GPS disciplined oscillator (accuracy > about 13 ppt). Transmitter power was 200 watts ... radiated power is > not known. During winter, with frozen ground, additional radials, > lower R and less foliage, the radiated power would have been about 0.5 > watt. Expect last night's test would be at least 3 - 6 dB (maybe more) > below that level. > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Markus Vester > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 04, 2011 4:45 AM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3 > > The mystery signal was received between about 0:15 and 3:30 on > 137780.310, with a 3.8 mHz downward shift from about 1:30 to 2:15 > - somewhat reminiscent of a DFCW "GM". Greenish colour indicates > southwesterly origin. The attached screenshot was taken at 8 UT, > timescale is 10 minutes per FFT. > I checked the other available TA grabbers around 4 UT, but no > trace of the mystery signal. > 73, and have a nice sunday, > Markus (DF6NM) > > *From:* Markus Vester > *Sent:* Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:39 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Subject:* LF: Weak signal on 137780.3 > > LF, > there seems to be a signal on 137780.300 Hz, about 60 nV/m here. > http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/grabber/TAnarrow.jpg > Wondering whose it may be... > Best wishes, > Markus > --------------040205040104050905090501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Markus, Jay,

Very interesting! Congratulations to this result.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 04.09.2011 15:56, schrieb Markus Vester:
Excellent Jay, thanks very much! I am really happy about this result. Attached is a spectrum graph, showing your peak at 3:16 UT,  with about 12 to 14 dB SNR in the 0.438 mHz FFT.
 
Do I understand you correctly in that you transmitted a continuous carrier, without a frequency step? Then the apparent 3.8 mHz shift must have been a transient propagational Doppler effect. Remarkably, this lines up with observations of John Andrew's tests in 2006, which had also shown two long stable runs, with a dip and rapid phase change inbetween. The dip seems to roughly coincide with midnight crossing over the middle of the path, but I'm not aware of any simple physical explanation for this.
 
BTW Your transmit situation must be similar to mine: I have about 200 W available into a Marconi antenna, which is about 0.1 percent efficient now, and up to twice that in a cold winter night.
 
Best regards, and thanks again for the test
Markus (DF6NM)

Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3

Markus
 
The mystery signal was from WD2XNS ... you have the time and frequency perfectly correct and the color DF also provides corroborating evidence. Note that there was no break in the transmission. The frequency is controlled by a GPS disciplined oscillator (accuracy about 13 ppt). Transmitter power was 200 watts ... radiated power is not known. During winter, with frozen ground, additional radials, lower R and less foliage, the radiated power would have been about 0.5 watt. Expect last night's test would be at least 3 - 6 dB (maybe more) below that level.
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2
  
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 4:45 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3

The mystery signal was received between about 0:15 and 3:30 on 137780.310, with a 3.8 mHz downward shift from about 1:30 to 2:15 - somewhat reminiscent of a DFCW "GM". Greenish colour indicates southwesterly origin. The attached  screenshot was taken at 8 UT, timescale is 10 minutes per FFT.
 
I checked the other available TA grabbers around 4 UT, but no trace of the mystery signal.
 
73, and have a nice sunday,
Markus (DF6NM)   

Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 5:39 AM
Subject: LF: Weak signal on 137780.3

LF,
 
there seems to be a signal on 137780.300 Hz, about 60 nV/m here.
 
Wondering whose it may be...
 
Best wishes,
Markus
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