Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4BD8B380000EE; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1R8cKF-0004nb-GP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:24:15 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1R8cKE-0004nS-J6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:24:14 +0100 Received: from nm23-vm5.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.109.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1R8cKC-0006w8-Ra for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:24:14 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.51] by nm23.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 18:24:06 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.126] by tm4.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 18:24:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1035.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2011 18:24:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 902810.7917.bm@omp1035.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 59902 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Sep 2011 18:24:06 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1317147846; bh=JQX5S8rzsNkM05drc26X1Cb6PLDXZUV+tp3pX32Y2ik=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tniDITYbA7Fr3kJ37l+nFzacuqBW7YZTbPiDH3xTmvbcx/5lPqf8fjidG1uL0RXbUa15nJqH5yAz6X7a7lcRMuBR5GzhGqAKplSSO56xFRk3aAkZ2rESHavBLb6kYNL1f0/B4razPmBhTaM1PI+nxFHSdHjlIbIhC4KN8VBMn3M= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QoVn87FGQ5MeySmFHD99bRv3IqTG5TfnuPkNKNrq7WXLwQbKx4VvlNFpWvJJ6cSTbFT29TmqS4dRFLftGuBlT/XM0OGq+FnqwOSst9QzyPnnMr1L+3kNC8zX+WUmMB3ofexKE1NXtk9CPFfJOK1Fua95utUgtjTApVHYdohHnf0=; X-YMail-OSG: RPRbiGkVM1kbNqjPL2g8QzX.ghGD037y1bxbi88NzuVODS5 kiqCxXI2GwoWAvXefrcX4yd_GP1_0lzOtLDAupK26MznWDwV9VPnGGA8opew Zx5EdIYk.Lbka4yqGVlSGIWxVyfmXUAjdKjb40TXRUpDEC.ACvefG5xgH41s _BrjYYEAQJmKMUrLm4OWQlo5N7p_vQeHomLXV24iJ8U_NM7JYEJ91LAyFf6p lAPvG_xdvRVUcGVOHgIvdGk9H9wlNirnvFlIp9dIZUTjR4lmcx4yrDg55O1l FBtpRm6IPNDhh769bW.HcUQNJLladwQ0kfl8VvKtOw4viPeGosSwq2cx9pni 0AfhYgedNLCk82givFe62X7Cx0XvQnRc_RR2GpoBoULgSXUM6DSQ8291JE00 vjPdoxGDKftKnFkgfsB7VNsFtg5iRkBW9F4jgAt9hPQK_DbrudHfDT2VHOFo VX_VkQyxnuZo_iFqGU9gFgeFmwhWA7uPYc9mUhyvgg9LTYJVN3l3fhON7IUu 5now4ciaL2GAKfOBvO2IG458XaDRr6UaIbw-- Received: from [151.99.187.181] by web29518.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:24:06 BST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D4379ED2AAB4@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> <4DF9EFD1.5010208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1313780109.51443.YahooMailNeo@web111907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9CD1E11E8BC9402CB4AECECAC4088443@JimPC> <1314394178.5030.YahooMailNeo@web111905.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1314641183.5605.YahooMailNeo@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5CBC9A.5020900@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1314705226.37125.YahooMailNeo@web111901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5CF192.3040905@legal-medicine.de> <1317076720.22768.YahooMailNeo@web29509.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1317077173.13177.YahooMailNeo@web29509.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1317119515.35504.YahooMailNeo@web29502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1317119586.50531.YahooMailNeo@web29505.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <4E81B80E.3030201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1317136545.77621.YahooMailNeo@web29513.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317147846.59346.YahooMailNeo@web29518.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:24:06 +0100 (BST) From: Daniele Tincani To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TINY_FONT=1.425 Subject: Re: LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="893906369-478872162-1317147846=:59346" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:483454208:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d007.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554e82151369be X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --893906369-478872162-1317147846=:59346 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Joze,=0A=A0=0Alooks like in your antenna the coil is wound over the shie= ld, am I correct?=0A=A0=0ARegards=0ADaniele=0A=A0=0A=0ADa: Joze Konda - S52= AB =0AA: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=0AInviato: Marted=EC = 27 Settembre 2011 19:42=0AOggetto: Re: LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments= =0A=0A=0AHI Daniele=0A=A0=0AThis is my great ferrite rood RX antenna with a= luminium shield:=0Ahttp://lea.hamradio.si/~s52ab/ndb_equipment/slides/great= _fer_rood.html=0AGood worked.=0A=A0=0ARegards=0A=A0=0A73, Joze s52ab=0A=A0= =0A=A0=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Daniele Tincani =0A>To: rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:15 PM=0A>= Subject: Re: LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments=0A>=0A>=0A>Hello Stefan,= =0A>=A0=0A>> but maybe the Q is reduced by the aluminium shield! =0A>Do you= think the aluminium could be the problem or the distance between the coil = and the core? I could replace the aluminium tube with a plastic tube, if sh= ielding is not necessary, but this would not improve the Q if the problem i= s the gap between the coil and the core.=0A>=A0=0A>> Are the rods galvanica= lly separated from each other by a thin plastic tape? What type is the ferr= ite material?=0A>Yes I put two layers of plastic tape on tips of each rod. = The ferrite material is russian MU400HH.=0A>=A0=0A>Best regards=0A>Daniele= =0A>=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>Da: Stefan Sch=E4fer =0A>A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=0A>Inviato: Marted=EC 27 Settembre = 2011 13:48=0A>Oggetto: Re: LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments=0A>=0A>=0A>= Hello Daniele, =0A>=0A>Nice work and good equipment.=0A>I would suggest to = make the wires between coil and cap as short as possible and not to use the= se crocodile clamps. HF litz wire should help about the Q but maybe the Q i= s reduced by the aluminium shield! Are the rods galvanically separated from= each other by a thin plastic tape? What type is the ferrite material? =0A>= =0A>73, Stefan/DK7FC=0A>=0A>PS: Tell me if you need a test signal ;-)=0A>= =0A>Am 27.09.2011 12:33, schrieb Daniele Tincani: =0A>Pics 3 and 4 are atta= ched here.=0A>>=A0=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Da: Daniele Tincani =0A>>A: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" = =0A>>Inviato: Marted=EC 27 Settembre 2011 12:31=0A>>Oggetto: My first ferri= te experiments=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hello LF,=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>this evening= I had some free time to spend for starting my very simple tests with ferri= te rods. Picture 1 in the attached zip file shows one of the rods (about 10= mm diameter x 200mm long) together with a short piece of plastic tube that = I have used to adapt the rods to a larger-diameter slotted aluminium tube -= =A0shown in picture 2. As you can see, the longitudinal cut on the tube is = not really regular and "clean". I'm not very good at working with metals. N= evertheless, I hope it will do the job, that is acting as a shield between = the rods and the coil. Picture=A03 shows two of the three rods I used, each= inserted=A0in a short piece of plastic pipe and protected with heat shrink= tube and some masking tape.=0A>>Finally, picture=A04 shows the=A0very prov= isional setup that I used to try measuring Q of an LC pair composed by a 2-= gangs variable capacitor plus a 55-turns coil wound over the aluminium tube= containing the ferrite rods. I performed several measures, with 1, 2 or 3 = rods inside the tube. I saw that using 3 rods increases the inductance sign= ificantly. For example,=A0at an intermediate position of the varcap, resona= nce was at 1037KHz with only 1 rod inside the tube, but it was at 767 KHz w= ith 3 rods.The=A0Q value also increases slightly using 3 rods, even thought= in my tests I got only=A0a miserable figure of about 30. Anyway, I=A0 deci= ded to go with 3 rods for my next step, that will be to try Litz wire for t= he coil and see what happens.=0A>>=0A>>Note: pics 3 and 4 will be attached = to a re-sent of this message.=0A>>=0A>>Regards=0A>>D.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>No virus found in this message.= =0A>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A>Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 15= 20/3921 - Release Date: 09/26/11 --893906369-478872162-1317147846=:59346 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joze,
 
looks like in your a= ntenna the coil is wound over the shield, am = I correct?
 
Regards
Daniele
 

Da: Joze Konda - S52AB <s52ab@siol.com>
A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Inviato: Marted=EC 27 Settembre 2011 19= :42
Oggetto: Re: LF: Re:= My first ferrite experiments

HI Daniele
 
This is my great ferrite rood RX antenna w= ith aluminium shield:
Good worked.
 
Regards
 
73, Joze s52ab
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:= 15 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: My first ferrit= e experiments

Hello Stefan,
 
> but maybe the Q is reduced by the alum= inium shield!
Do you think the= aluminium could be the problem or the distance between the coil and the co= re? I could replace the aluminium tube with a plastic tube, if shielding is= not necessary, but this would not improve the Q if the problem is the gap = between the coil and the core.
 
> Are the rods galvanically separated = from each other by a thin plastic tape? What type is the ferrite material?<= /SPAN>
Yes I put two l= ayers of plastic tape on tips of each rod. The ferrite material is russian = MU400HH.
 
Best regards
Daniele
 

Da: Stef= an Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Inviato: Marted=EC 27 Settembre = 2011 13:48
Oggetto: Re: = LF: Re: My first ferrite experiments

Hello Daniele,

Nice work and good equipment= .
I would suggest to make the wires between coil and cap as short as pos= sible and not to use these crocodile clamps. HF litz wire should help about= the Q but maybe the Q is reduced by the aluminium shield! Are the rods gal= vanically separated from each other by a thin plastic tape? What type is th= e ferrite material?

73, Stefan/DK7FC

PS: Tell me if you need= a test signal ;-)

Am 27.09.2011 12:33, schrieb Daniele Tincani:=20
Pics 3 and 4 are atta= ched here.
 

= Da: Daniele Tincani <danieletincani@yahoo.com>=
A: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org>
Inviato:<= /SPAN> Marted=EC 27 Settembre 2011 12:31
Oggetto: My first ferrite experiments

 
Hello LF,
 
this evening I had some free time to spend for starting my very simple= tests with ferrite rods. Picture 1 in the attached zip file shows one of t= he rods (about 10mm diameter x 200mm long) together with a short piece of p= lastic tube that I have used to adapt the rods to a larger-diameter slotted= aluminium tube - shown in picture 2. As you can see, the longitudinal= cut on the tube is not really regular and "clean". I'm not very good at wo= rking with metals. Nevertheless, I hope it will do the job, that is acting = as a shield between the rods and the coil. Picture 3 shows two of the = three rods I used, each inserted in a short piece of plastic pipe and = protected with heat shrink tube and some masking tape.
Finally, picture 4 shows the very provisional setup that I u= sed to try measuring Q of an LC pair composed by a 2-gangs variable capacit= or plus a 55-turns coil wound over the aluminium tube containing the ferrit= e rods. I performed several measures, with 1, 2 or 3 rods inside the tube. = I saw that using 3 rods increases the inductance significantly. For example= , at an intermediate position of the varcap, resonance was at 1037KHz = with only 1 rod inside the tube, but it was at 767 KHz with 3 rods.The = ;Q value also increases slightly using 3 rods, even thought in my tests I g= ot only a miserable figure of about 30. Anyway, I  decided to go = with 3 rods for my next step, that will be to try Litz wire for the coil and see what happens.
 
Note: pics 3 and 4 will be = attached to a re-sent of this message.
 
Regards
D.








=

No virus found in this messa= ge.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/39= 21 - Release Date: 09/26/11


=
--893906369-478872162-1317147846=:59346--