Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 28458380000B5; Wed, 3 Aug 2011 08:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QoaCy-0000DH-Hx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:05:56 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QoaCx-0000D4-Ru for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:05:55 +0100 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QoaCv-0006Qe-En for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:05:55 +0100 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p73C5qwt016357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2011 14:05:52 +0200 Received: from [129.206.22.206] (pc206.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.22.206]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id p73C5q8x014175 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2011 14:05:52 +0200 Message-ID: <4E3938E9.9090802@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:02:49 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?U3RlZmFuIFNjaMOkZmVy?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8CE1F480AFAA39A-BE4-3E91@webmail-d146.sysops.aol.com> <4E386F31.10900@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <8CE1FE428977AE4-22B4-1BF2@webmail-d128.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CE1FE428977AE4-22B4-1BF2@webmail-d128.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Fieldstrength and radiated power Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090302020508000307090109" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:460212224:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad44e3939f371a7 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090302020508000307090109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id p73C5qwt016357 Hello Markus, Well, so, i just got 19 uV/m and the distance is 178.2 km. So this=20 should be 25.57 + 45 + 3.6 - 49.5 =3D 24.7 dBm, i.e. 540 mW ERP :-( I see what must be improved... 73, Stefan Am 03.08.2011 13:03, schrieb Markus Vester: > Hi Stefan, LF, > there is no peak-hold function, so your carrier has to be present at=20 > the grabber capture time. Allowing for a bit of clock uncertainty,=20 > you would want to transmit for say 20 seconds around any five minute=20 > multiple. > Here's an example for ERP calculation: > E =3D 20 uV/m at R =3D 200 km distance would give > EMRP =3D 26 + 46 + 4 - 49.5 =3D 26.5 dBm =3D 450 mW > Dipole ERP =3D 0.82 W > To calculate the distance R to my receiver you could use > http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DJN59NJ69ES > Best regards, > Markus (DF6NM) > > > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Di., 2. Aug. 2011, 23:46 > Betreff: Re: LF: Fieldstrength and radiated power > > Thanks Markus, > > Will try now if it works and see what my level will be ;-) Good for PA=20 > adjustments, at least in times without a skywave component. Anyway... > > So, do we have to send a longer dash or acidentally transmit to the=20 > right time? :-) > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > Am 02.08.2011 18:26, schrieb Markus Vester: >> Dear LF, >> to support estimates of radiated power, I have added a fieldstrength=20 >> readout on my LF grabber >> http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/grabber/Grabber.htm >> It simply displays the peak frequency and amplitude within the QRSS=20 >> subband at the time of the capture (ie. every five minutes). Due to=20 >> different calibration issues, the readout will be accurate only to=20 >> within about 3 dB. There may also be considerable day-to-day=20 >> variation, for example from switching between different receive antenn= as. >> In the region of groundwave dominance (up to 400 km daytime, 200 km=20 >> in darkness), radiated power in dBm or milliwatts can be roughly=20 >> estimated based on distance R using >> EMRP[dBm] =3D 20 log E[uV/m] + 20 log R[km] + 0.02 R[km] - 49.5 >> EMRP[mW] =3D 10^(EMRP[dBm]/10) >> To convert to halfwave-dipole ERP or EIRP, you would have to apply=20 >> the usual factor of 1.83 or 3. >> Hope this may be useful... >> Best 73, >> Markus (DF6NM) >> >> --------------090302020508000307090109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id p73C5qwt016357 Hello Markus,

Well, so, i just got 19 uV/m and the distance is 178.2 km. So this should be 25.57 + 45 + 3.6 - 49.5 =3D 24.7 dBm, i.e. 540 mW ERP :-(

I see what must be improved...

73, Stefan


Am 03.08.2011 13:03, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan, LF,
=C2=A0
there is no peak-hold function, so your carrier=C2=A0has to be present at the grabber capture time.=C2=A0Allowing for=C2=A0a=C2=A0bit of= clock uncertainty, you=C2=A0would want to transmit for say 20 seconds around an= y five minute multiple.
=C2=A0
Here's=C2=A0an example for ERP calculation:
=C2=A0E =3D 20 uV/m at R =3D 200 km distance would give
=C2=A0EMRP =3D 26 + 46 + 4 - 49.5 =3D 26.5 dBm =3D 450 mW
=C2=A0Dipole ERP =3D 0.82 W
To calculate the distance R=C2=A0to=C2=A0my receiver you could use=
=C2=A0
Best regards,
Markus (DF6NM)


-= ----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heid= elberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Di., 2. Aug. 2011, 23:46
Betreff: Re: LF: Fieldstrength and radiated power

Thanks Markus,

Will try now if it works and see what my level will be ;-) Good for PA adjustments, at least in times without a skywave component. Anyway...

So, do we have to send a longer dash or acidentally transmit to the right time? :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 02.08.2011 18:26, schrieb Markus Vester:
Dear LF,
=C2=A0
to support estimates of radiated power, I have added a fieldstrength readout on my LF grabber
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
It simply displays the peak frequency and amplitude within the QRSS subband at the time of the capture (ie. every five minutes). Due to different calibration issues, the readout will be accurate only to within about 3 dB. There may also be considerable day-to-day variation, for example from switching between different receive antennas.
=C2=A0
In the region of groundwave dominance (up to 400 km daytime, 200 km in darkness), radiated power in dBm or milliwatts can be roughly estimated based on distance R using
=C2=A0
=C2=A0EMRP[dBm] =3D 20 log E[uV/m] + 20 log R[km] + 0.02 R[km] -= 49.5
=C2=A0EMRP[mW] =3D 10^(EMRP[dBm]/10)
=C2=A0
To convert to halfwave-dipole ERP or EIRP, you would have to apply the usual factor of 1.83 or 3.
=C2=A0
Hope this may be useful...
=C2=A0
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
--------------090302020508000307090109--