Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C531438000085; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Qt4Lc-00089V-HF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:05:24 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Qt4Lb-00089M-KY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:05:23 +0100 Received: from nm7-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.66]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Qt4LZ-00047k-Iu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:05:23 +0100 Received: from [98.138.90.48] by nm7.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 21:05:14 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.171] by tm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 21:05:14 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Aug 2011 21:05:14 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 395242.9718.bm@omp1027.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 59470 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Aug 2011 21:05:14 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1313442314; bh=JNYnmswNVdd8U+uGnztKqsjm/2yQJY6abSs6QP5KF4o=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cNsxjB6EhDd1Yrrw5dENQevpDN5yQSP0mU/0h6fBwGSIBJOTgNuqmECJc3IVqcmo7+HLiCO6IFJU7qqhud8YDhz36PNJMYS4U3NV7XtrsoXuC/Y3G7HC5VhLCPRK1y5lDWAyR9ZZjPmSbTqzCIZcJU3ja9ONvsOLZOCMLFJuBDE= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mCt0U7Vm60yu1n+2b3/hwAFWET5L2QKTQ4rWNfjCDSP8gpjqDvRlnpnYK6LFjMnc+InjgZKjt71jrMsqSMQkBD3Vq+D6tsNj4TSXJAHc8AH41JdM+KYqLisBptblNUaIRMDwWgARrANeiHeqET03OkQWwfXBoh44tbSxSNp5W8U=; X-YMail-OSG: BmDse6AVM1mteWQBBbia6aruR.lTnQHfhCR2rKW87_amvxj mYGalu4_RMpuGcUYD3r4KOsW3anqJTdY.qU2LQ6sW2w4uzqdzMamqMezhpL8 sSGDHUxMgmFH2B70d7suI1QqPS_vbZjD1AQHfp6SCl9pchhEvtjf8Lf0090u jPLMd2oNS9d5kxRdtMem2Yqzj3dMU6fwcnSCTvnyCjAHbIYVeivmY555v70_ xf.zcLJ67xO20FiyoYIz3wbbJUadsXSTT8i_HGettPFI88jB78rp9BYcfipD Z8vNvW.iAqAsqleh20UR77YdQlpz9gMnAMvbPBNpti6q3h05xao_fq2cbFzp rHCr0rvOqjcBbJEiWx5O0Y04cd53d0ZbsCfYCxHg2067f Received: from [87.1.206.210] by web111901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:05:13 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.313619 References: <68BE37BD69E54DEE89CEBA8E30E9B94E@PcMinto> <4E47FFE9.10100@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <3ED8E5422F1F45DBB8186E9D9870AD63@PcMinto> <4E480E02.9020706@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <938BF599006244949F6CDDB5BA91F347@PcMinto> <4E482FBD.7030402@freenet.de> <4E484183.9090805@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4E494A57.90105@freenet.de> <4E4956DA.1060201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1313431674.11413.YahooMailNeo@web111912.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313442313.46000.YahooMailNeo@web111901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniele Tincani To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TINY_FONT=1.425 Subject: Re: LF: Ferrite RX antennas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1515811817-1313442313=:46000" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=CELL_PHONE_BOOST, FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:433322976:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m010.1 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d4e498a525b1b X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --0-1515811817-1313442313=:46000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roelof,=0A=A0=0AI fully agree with you. In fact, I intended to expose on= ly my very personal case (and referred to the so-called MaxiWhip just as an= other possible LF rx antenna that I had read about recently). It took a lon= g time for me=A0to come to a "realistic" identification of my particular re= quirements (taking into account the desired band, my technical skills, room= restrictions, budget limits, "social" constraints and family-internal mand= atory regulations :-)). After that, I decided to go with loops. I did actua= lly performed some tests with active E-probes, but they gave poor=A0results= . This was expected, given the position of E-probes during tests,=A0just a = couple of meters far from walls, on top of a wooden pole out of my balcony = at 5th floor. A better position could have been on the roof, but before to = try that I made other tests on the balcony with the M0AYF loop amplifier (w= ith Steve Ratzlaff mods) and found them satisfactory enough, so I=A0decided= to go with this solution (for now, of course :-)). Anyway, my personal experience is that = in a restricted-room, quasi-indoor application, it is quite hard to get an = active E-probe working properly. Under the same conditions, an active (wide= band)=A0or tuned loop is a more manageable choice in my humble opinion.=0A= =A0=0ABest regards=0ADaniele=0A=0AFrom: Roelof Bakker = =0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=0ASent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:03 PM= =0ASubject: Re: LF: Ferrite RX antennas=0A=0AHello Daniele,=0A=0AJust consi= der this.=0AThe now decommissioned NDB IPA-280, location Easter Island in t= he Pacific, distance 13000 km, has been received in Europe by=0A only three= listeners. The first was Vincent Lecler from France, who used a beverage o= n ground for antenna. The second was Hartmut Wolf from Germany, using a K9A= Y. The third person was yours truly, who used a mini-whip and the station i= dentification was acquired by aural copy of the CW ID.=0A=0AThis shows that= very different kind of antennas can provide excellent results.=0AThe point= is, what kind of antenna is the most suitable for your location?=0ALoops a= re excellent, but still worthless at my home location, due to a radiating u= nderground cable TV distribution cable.=0A=0AThere is more to reception ant= ennas than a simple A versus B test!=0A=0ABest regards,=0ARoelof, pa0rdt --0-1515811817-1313442313=:46000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Roelof,
 
I fully agr= ee with you. In fact, I intended to expose only my very personal case (and = referred to the so-called MaxiWhip just as another possible LF rx antenna t= hat I had read about recently). It took a long time for me to come to = a "realistic" identification of my particular requirements (taking into acc= ount the desired band, my technical skills, room restrictions, budget limits, "soci= al" constraints and family-internal mandatory regulations :-)). After that,= I decided to go with loops. I did actually performed some tests with activ= e E-probes, but they gave poor results. This was expected,=0A given th= e position of E-probes during tests, just a couple of meters far from = walls, on top of a wooden pole out of my balcony at 5th floor. A better pos= ition could have been on the roof, but before to try that I made other test= s on the balcony with the M0AYF loop amplifier (with Steve Ratzlaff mods) a= nd found them satisfactory enough, so I decided to go with this soluti= on (for now, of course :-)). Anyway, my personal experience is that in a re= stricted-room, quasi-indoor application, it is quite hard to get an active = E-probe working properly. Under the same conditions, an active (wideband)&n= bsp;or tuned loop is a more manageable choice in my humble opinion.<= /div>
&nbs= p;
Best reg= ards
Daniele

From: Roelof Bakker <roelof@ndb.demon.nl>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgSent: Monday, August 15, = 2011 9:03 PM
Subject: R= e: LF: Ferrite RX antennas

Hello Daniele,

Just conside= r this.
The now decommissioned NDB IPA-280, location Easter Island in the Pacific, distanc= e 13000 km, has been received in Europe by=0A only three listeners. The fir= st was Vincent Lecler from France, who used a beverage on ground for antenn= a. The second was Hartmut Wolf from Germany, using a K9AY. The third person= was yours truly, who used a mini-whip and the station identification was a= cquired by aural copy of the CW ID.

This shows that very different k= ind of antennas can provide excellent results.
The point is, what kind o= f antenna is the most suitable for your location?
Loops are excellent, b= ut still worthless at my home location, due to a radiating underground cabl= e TV distribution cable.

There is more to reception antennas than a = simple A versus B test!

Best regards,
Roelof, pa0rdt


<= br>

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